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  #31  
Old 7th January 2018, 02:18
ZOLTAN190D ZOLTAN190D is offline
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Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Hello,
I know, this is an old discussion but I recently find this:
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety...177/index.html
It is about Johann Dreher's crash site while flying a Ju-88G,Werke/Nr.6215868(a typo?, probably 621586)-Other sources give as W/Nr 620028.As the downed plane is described in detail,(even both engines W/Nr. is given)one unusual thing captured my attention, the color description: Markings: D5 (small) + AX (both black). Undersurface light blue, mottled with white, continuing up the sides of fuselage and fin. Upper surfaces dark blue mottled with grey and white.
It seems that this plane was used somewhere in Mediterranian theatre an then rebuild in a night fighter G-variant as the tail was painted in light blue as the undersides and sides.The grey mottling applied only over dark blue and the overall white mottling sugest this too.Maybe the W/nr.bring some light?
It is obvious that if R.L.M. described RLM 83 as Dark Blue, this was Dark Blue and not
Dark Green as I saw that many still believe that it was.And it couldn't be a typo...
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  #32  
Old 7th January 2018, 03:52
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

"It seems that this plane was used somewhere in Mediterranian theatre an then rebuild in a night fighter G-variant as the tail was painted in light blue as the undersides and sides.The grey mottling applied only over dark blue and the overall white mottling sugest this too.Maybe the W/nr.bring some light?"

With due respect, this is pure fiction or speculation. Plane was most probably a regular Ju 88 G-6 621586, that type never were in Med area, as area had been lost before its build time (November 1944) - And NO KNOWN CASES of any REBUILD from OLDER VERSION to Ju 88 G Night Fighter - but it may have had odd salvaged parts -That is quite different altogeather.
Ju 88 G had
tail group of Ju 188, and had broader 188 horizontal tailplane than A-4 (but they had basic A-4 wings, but with broader Ailerons - and probably the proposed simplified S-3 / S-5 wings, as no Dive Brakes needed or Dive Bombing).

Using Light-Blue (stocks of this existed at ATG thrughout Ju 188 production) and Dark Blue and mottling that with two other (Lighter) may have been just a case of the available paint. Note this was a plane from 12. Staffeln and at the time (winter 1945) trainers were had hit too, and camo was needed as more and more time was spent NOT flying.


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Last edited by edNorth; 7th January 2018 at 13:13.
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  #33  
Old 12th January 2018, 20:59
ZOLTAN190D ZOLTAN190D is offline
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Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Yes, indeed it was only a speculation.I am not a Ju-88 expert but it was common in the Late Luftwaffe such rebuildings(see FW190 A into FW-190D).On the other hand, I was at the beginning suspicious about the accuracy of description, but after I read all the descriptions of the planes downed over England, this a/c was the only one with this unusual color.All the other colors were the standard RLM Farben used then, well described in reports.
However, two things caught my attention: the greenish-blue(so-called many years ago RLM 84, similar to the British duck egg blue)was present on German bombers and intruders early 1944, maybe late '43.
But as a He-219 expert, for me, a revelation was that all the bombers and night intruders over England late 1943 early-mid 1944 described at this site were painted in black, underside.
Almost certainly this indicates that this color was used only over the territories dominated by RAF to camouflage Luftwaffe intruders into RAF night fighters.
Applied this to He-219, R.Francis Fergusson's (I am very impressed with his work-The best book about He-219) theory- about that this color was applied over a certain A-2 290 Wk.Nr. batch - fail.

Last edited by ZOLTAN190D; 13th January 2018 at 01:13.
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  #34  
Old 12th January 2018, 21:33
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

As the downed plane is described in detail … Undersurface light blue, mottled with white, continuing up the sides of fuselage and fin. Upper surfaces dark blue mottled with grey and white.
There are so many different words used in these reports to describe Luftwaffe colours that it is hard to believe that investigators were using a standard reference (unfortunately!). It seems each man was free to use his imagination in naming the colours and leaves us trying to guess what they meant.
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  #35  
Old 10th February 2018, 19:23
Mark VIII Mark VIII is offline
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Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Hello Michael.
This is exciting news, and your continued interest in researching the topic is one reason why you are respected in this historical community. Like the post previous to mine I am interested in the color chips marked 83 found at Blohm & Voss. Do you have an explanation for these, or is the existence of the color chips a misunderstanding? On another note of interest to you I found something in my research that I would like for you to see as it pertains to your research. It would be wise to respond to me about this in private for your benefit. James V. Crow had an E mail address for you, but it is not working so I have to ask you here on the forum. Sorry. I am busy but will look for your reply so I wont make you wait.
Sincerely,
Bryan.
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