Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th May 2013, 17:53
Michael Ullmann Michael Ullmann is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6
Michael Ullmann is on a distinguished road
Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Hola Folks,
last year in September I visit the IPMS Sweden Nationals. Then they asked me to give a presentation about RLM-colours. I asked them I they want to hear something about my latest discoveries. Since then I was asked several times to give more information regarding RLM 83. Here we go:
Test order E2-45/31

(Development and verification of camouflage for the Mediterranean Sea)
  • -Report August 1943:
    Alongside RLM 73 a „darkblue“ colour will be use. Flighttest in the near future.
  • Report September 1943:
    Using the camouflage pattern „Land“ and „Sea“ with RLM 73 and the darkblue colour 300/III suggested for introduction.
  • Report November 1943:
    Closed with report dated 10. November 1943. Colour RLM 83 „DARKBLUE“ with RLM 72 for Sea- and RLM 70 for landaircraft suggested for introduction.
  • Sammelmitteilung 2, dated 15. August 1944:
    …on the dark shades RLM 72, 73, 75, 81, 82, 83 …. (no colour was stated)

These original documentation of the introduction of the new colour leads to the conclusion that we have to expect a lot of "darkblue" Luftwaffe aircraft in the Mediterranean theater.
Much more important for all those fighter-fans: This "darkgreen", formerly known as RLM 83, is nothing more, nothing less than a darkgreen variation of RLM 81.
Photos of my finished Ju 88:
http://www.scalemates.com/whatsnew.php

Best Regards from Germany
Michael Ullmann
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th May 2013, 22:46
Clint Mitchell's Avatar
Clint Mitchell Clint Mitchell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 447
Clint Mitchell is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Thank you Michael for sharing this information.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11th May 2013, 01:13
stevehnz stevehnz is offline
Awaiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 42
stevehnz is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Michael, I'm sorry if I've missed some information from you regarding this, but does your research over the years lead you to believe that this finish was applied in the field, ie have dark blue finished aircraft relics been found or are we looking at an interesting archive of proposals which may never have received a physical application?
Steve.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th May 2013, 02:50
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 2,870
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Hello Michael,

And welcome as new member!

You will appreciate that TOCH didn't lost time to comment your discovery:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ghlight=RLM+83
As soon as September 2012 ...

And that ought to be an answer to our good friend JCM http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ghlight=RLM+83
... Who always fought against that RLM 83 Dark green theory!

@Steve: Element of answers in the first link I'm providing.

Best regards, Franck.

PS: Without using the search capacity you always have a "similar threads" panel at the very bottom of this page (for example).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11th May 2013, 05:39
stevehnz stevehnz is offline
Awaiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 42
stevehnz is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Thanks Franck, I was not aware of the earlier discussion on this forum though I had seen the discussion on clubhyper. I'm wondering where this places the discussion on this thread on Finescale Modeler then, where the member, snapdragonxxx, had access to annotated colour chips in the Blohm & Voss archives which from the way I read it, identified 3 versions of a colour called RLM83. From reading the discussion around this (TOCH) thread & the earlier one linked to, there would appear to be no documentary evidence for a dark green RLM83 or am I missing something again?
Steve.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11th May 2013, 06:52
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 2,870
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Steve,

To make short ... ask JCM!
And I think that Michael is very close when he is writing "This "darkgreen", formerly known as RLM 83, is nothing more, nothing less than a darkgreen variation of RLM 81."
It looks like a long shot without end and there will be "blood and tears" to come; this is the only point you can be sure until next "discovery".

Last just a question to answer to yours: Why RLM 83 chips in B&V factory archiv????


Regards, Franck.

PS: Sorry I forgot one point: You can go on LEMB forum too where the same subject has been discussed in a more "blood & tears" way. But, who knows, this thread is not finished yet
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11th May 2013, 07:30
stevehnz stevehnz is offline
Awaiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 42
stevehnz is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Quote:
Originally Posted by ouidjat View Post
Steve,

Last just a question to answer to yours: Why RLM 83 chips in B&V factory archiv????


Regards, Franck.
I don't know the answer to that, I'll PM snapdragon & try to get some clarification, it may well be I have misunderstood his introduction to the topic.
Steve.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11th May 2013, 09:51
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

The most interesting part about this to me is that the Dark Green was RLM81 as well because as a consequence, the camouflage combination of dark green and medium brown must have been what? 81/81? Or was perhaps 82 available in both green and brown, just like 81?

That idea has been nagging me since you told us in Gothenburg that tests for 81 and 82 had begun with two shades of green and later also brown-tinted versions of these colors.

Cheers / Anders
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11th May 2013, 10:56
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnz View Post
Thanks Franck, I was not aware of the earlier discussion on this forum though I had seen the discussion on clubhyper. I'm wondering where this places the discussion on this thread on Finescale Modeler then, where the member, snapdragonxxx, had access to annotated colour chips in the Blohm & Voss archives which from the way I read it, identified 3 versions of a colour called RLM83. From reading the discussion around this (TOCH) thread & the earlier one linked to, there would appear to be no documentary evidence for a dark green RLM83 or am I missing something again?
Steve.
Without knowing the guy who posted that or knowing more about his research it's hard to say much but that atlas of colors just seems too good to be true. I mean a color atlas with both old, out of production paint like the 6x range along with the latest colors, their variations and even fieldmixes, it doesn't seem even remotely likely although it would be fantastic if it was true. To have army and naval colors in the same atlas seems even stranger. /Anders
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11th May 2013, 15:00
stevehnz stevehnz is offline
Awaiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 42
stevehnz is on a distinguished road
Re: Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

It has been pointed out on Britmodeller that in Merrick vol.1, pps89-91 there is discussion of Dunkel Blue Ju88s of KG54 operating in the Med, one of which landed by mistake in Switzerland & was reported on in depth. The colour being described as dark blue, in between RLM 24 & the later deeper 78, pretty much as Michael has painted his model Ju88 ( very nice too Michael) I'll be keen to find out more.
Steve.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
At least some informations about RLM 83 Rémi Baudru Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 7 30th September 2012 22:05
RLM 83 color ? Mermet Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 24th July 2012 23:45
rlm colors-eric hartman boggie 1 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 2nd March 2010 16:14
RLM 64 and the Junkers Ju 52??? GrahamB Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 20th September 2006 23:03
RLM RAL equivalent chart sought BOBC Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 17th August 2005 15:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net