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Old 14th December 2008, 12:54
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Normandy a bit more difficult

5.july 11h44 Bf109g-6 165367 Shot-down 3 km NW Fourges 12 km SE Les Andelys Pilot dead = 59745/462 JG54 ? JG5 ?
6.july 06h30 Bf109 Shot-dow Forêt-la-folie NW 8 Km ESE Les andelys
Pilot dead

Remi
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Old 15th December 2008, 19:01
Rabe Anton Rabe Anton is offline
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Hallo Remi!

Bf 109G-6 WNr. 165 367 was not assigned to III./JG 54, which was equipped with Fw 190A-8s from May 1944. I suppose there is a tiny chance that III./JG 54 lost a Bf 109G-6 in Normandy area in the spring of 1944, but as the unit was in RVT in NW Germany at the time, this seems highly unlikely.

Perhaps it was an Aufklärungsflzg. or an airplane down during delivery (Ueberfuehrungs)?

RA
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Old 15th December 2008, 20:03
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

RA/Remi

I have a FW 190 A-8 with 8/JG 54 lost near Beaumontes 6 Jul 44 which supports RA's comment

59745 seems to have been used by I/JG 5 and although they lost Bf 109 G-6s on 5 Jul 44, I have no Wk Nr or EKM matches
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Old 16th December 2008, 08:44
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Me stupid, for sure JG54 is not concerned, JG5 but has he fight along III.JG1 COULD BE ALSO...

Remi
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Old 16th December 2008, 08:47
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

I wonder if the 165367 is a valid "109" Wn...
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Old 16th December 2008, 08:49
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Me Regensburg of Aug.44....

thks Remi for oyur quick answer
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Old 16th December 2008, 14:46
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Hi, Remi.

Took a look at what I had on JG 5 on this day:

I./J.G.5 lost a total of 8 aircraft reported. 6 of these were combat losses, 2 total losses and 4 damaged.

They reported 4 pilots wounded or killed, 2 pilots were wounded, both of these flew aircraft reported as damaged or total loss in combat, while the two pilots reported as killed seems to have been killed in accidents!

Having reviewed the NVM's of the unit for this day I have identified the wounded and killed pilots:

Killed:
Wolfgang Buth, 69921/67
Eckhart Berneburg, 59741/384

Wounded:
Walter Wagner, 68455/326
Herbert Funken, 59745/561

So it seems that the NVM's and summary loss records are consistent, and that the pilot is not from JG 5.

But there are plenty of losses to choose from on this date... my summary losses show there is at least 70 fighter losses recorded on this day

Regards,
Andreas B
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Old 16th December 2008, 20:20
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Here is my list for the candidates
IISt JG2 Evreux A LFK P-51 BF109G-6 20730 100 x-sw Schröder georg oblt Gr.Kdr-FSA Krankenhaus Deutschland
14 I JG27 Caen raum LFK abgesch, Heeres unterstütz, BF109G-6 165372 100 x-le Hagen franz uf 68421/335-f-14,JG27-040617-
I JG27 X LFK BF109G-6 100
III JG27 F X X BF109G-6 100 f aus vm
III JG27 X LFK BF109G-6
10 IV JG27 Caen-bayeux LFK BF109G-6 760256 100 x Fischer friedrich uf f
IV JG27 X LFK BF109G-6 100
9 JG27 Seinemündung LFK BF109G-6 440924 Ge4+! 100 x Baur walter ltn 68416/314-f aus vm-080922
12 JG27 X LFK BF109G-6 100 x Reinert ernst-wilhelm ltn f-sta,fhr,
II JG3 X LFK BF109G-6 100
II JG3 X LFK BF109G-6 100
II JG3 X X BF109G-6
II JG3 X BF BF109G-6
III JG3 X X BF109G-6 100
III JG3 X LFK BF109G-6
4 JG3 Sucy FP Kpst L BF109G-6 163750 We6/8 100 x Pelletier heinz uf
4 JG3 Caen raum A LFK BF109G-6 441155 We11 100 x Poppitz kurt uf
4 JG3 Evreux b. A LFK J BF109G-6 441800 We12 100 x Hametner franz uf verl.erl.290744
6 JG3 Villacoublay FP Kpst L BF109G-6Ge2 411679 100 x Schulze werner ofhr
8 JG3 Lisieux Gebiet LFK Spit BF109G-6R56 165331 100 x Ruhl walter fhr
I JG301 F Epinoy FP TM BF109G-6
I JG301 F Epinoy FP TM BF109G-6
1 JG5 Beauvais west,/Caen-Le Havre/ A LFK J 7000 m BF109G-6 165279 We8 100 x Berneburg eckhart ltn 59741/384-f-090220-Kassel
2 JG5 Frières-faillouël FP 8 km NNO Chauny Fehlstart BF109G-6 412631 Ge7 100 x-A Buth wolfgang ltn 69921/67-f-180623-Berlin
2 JG5 Montdidier b, N BF109G-6AS 163828 Sw4 40 x Wagner walter uf 68455/326-f- FSA-100122-Weidenhausen Wiesbaden
2 JG5 Labosse 17 km SW Beauvais A LFK P51 BF109G-6U2 412942 Sw2 100 x Funken herbert uf 59745/561-f-FSA-231220-Velbert Düsseldorf
4 JG53 St andré de l'eure 6 km west, A LFK BF109G-6 163381 We10+- 100 x L Schumann georg uf 68415/411-f-FSA-060823-Grochwitz Thür,
4 JG53 Maltot b, /7 km SW Caen A Ferd b, tiefangriff Kabine weggefliehen vor aufsclhag BF109G-6 412745 We7+- 100 x Drobne georg uf 68417/459-f-080520-Wilhelmsburg ND
6 JG53 Paris-dreux LKF P47 BF109G-6 110260 Ge7+- 100 x x Ohsenkamp bruno uf 59741/439-f-150221-Bochum
5 JG77 Pieve 6 km S LFK BF109G-6 162560 100 x Schemel joachim uf f-FSA
3 Jgr,200 Rhône mündung X BF109G-6 412629 Ge9 100 x Müller-haagen rainer fw f
2 Jgr,Ost Riemertsheide A BF BF109G-6 20172 Sw26 100 x Heuer leopold ofhr f
2 Jgr,Ost Mannsdorf/ O,S A BF BF109G-6 165302 Sw15 100 x Tönjes heinz ltn f
2 Jgr,Ost Volksmanndorf A BF BF109G-6 412032 Sw13 100 x Burkert fritz ltn f
1 Jgr,West Stettin-altdamm X BF109G-6 161776 We8 100 x Wolf kurt ge f

The place where it occured light southlich of the Seine river, match none of these losses, I checked the recce-units seem not to hv such Wn, even the Geschwader Bongart is out of cause

remi
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Old 16th December 2008, 23:24
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Re: Normandy a bit more difficult

Concerning the avaibility for JG5 of the 165XXX, I confirmed that I.JG5 received on 18.july 165886+881+877+819+838

remi
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