7./JG 3 at Lillers (bei Lille 1941) - pilot of Bf 109 F coded 1 + -

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Recently some photographs of Bf 109 F from 7./JG 3 were sold at Ebay. One of them depicted laterally a Bf 109 F with the visible marking: 1 + -

Was it the Staffelkapitän machine? If so, who was the Staffelkapitän?

The machine was under repair with the under cowling open.

A.

[Chris Goss]

Adriano: No record of III./JG 3 being at Lille but was at Lillers May-June 1941. It is always assumed the St Kap flew 1+ and only FBs will prove that. 7 St Kap was Oblt Kurt Sochatzy

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Chris, thank you for the relevant information.

Keep going the good work. Guess we met at the right time, late July. I got a similar shot from this machine from the same seller, on a previous auction, this is why I am asking. I thought it was taken in Russia, in mid 1941....but the seller relisted the same lateral photo as taken at Lillers (bei Lille) and the information about the unit. Thank you for that.

A.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Adriano

Not knowing which photo you refer to, the markings 1+- usually refers to a II./Gruppe aircraft.

7./JG 3 was with the III./JG 3 and should normally have carried either a wave or an I after the +

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

Good point Stig & someone correct me if I am wrong but Lillers is some 50km west of Lille?

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Detailfoto Messerschmitt Me 109 - 7 / JG 3 – Flugfeld Lillers bei Lille 2.Wk

Above is the caption of the seller for this one and several other shots, including the lateral one that I have not saved, sadly.

But I shall find where I scanned the original one I do have and put here. Confess that I have NOT checked if the symbol after the Balkenkreuz is the wave or the + or horizontal...just remembered the 1 + symbol.

Also have not checked where Lillers is...so my fault on both. Shall check before posting here on next time.

Shall put the photo here, just gave me some time to find it.

A.

[ouidjat]

Anyway, it's not an F but a Gustav. Hence not 1941. And frankly, with that spinner I doubt it's a JG3 machine, but why not ?
Cheers,
Franck.

[Chris Goss]

Another example of caveat emptor-seems to be a lot of it on eBay

[Adriano Baumgartner]

This is the mentioned machine.

It was first sold as a picture take in 1943 in Russland...so probably a G type as Franck matched. (Yes, my mistake that I forgot to see the air scopes on the nose of the first picture enclosed here!).

Then, the seller re-listed it with other Bf 109 photos, apparently from 7./JG 3, taken at Lillers (bei Lille as reported by him), in 1941.

I tried to see a werknummer but was unable....

STIG you were correct about the vertical bar of III Gruppe. I posted by memory of codes on the machine...now we do have the picture with size who permits its insertion here. AGAIN: MY MISTAKE!

A.

[ouidjat]

And your last picture is an F-2 of 7./JG3, nicknamed "Tizi" and Oblt. Kurt Sochatzy's machine. Picture taken at Auchy-au-Bois as far I know (by Lillers, yes: 10.5 by road) May 1941...