Natural metal Spitfires.

[stefaan]

Hi.
In our archives we are coming across a few entries that state that the Spitfires in some of the SAAF sqns in the MTO has left to be painted.
I have heard from a 40 SAAF sqn Pilot that he flew his Spitfire that was delivered in natural metal for a few weeks as he had to wait his turn to get his a/c painted in the Standard SAAF colours.
I have seen a 3 sqn SAAF as well as a 7 sqn Spit in Italy in natural metal.
Question.
If the Air Ministry managed to enforce the USA produced a/c to be delivered
cammouflaged,why do we see UK delivered a/c in natural metal.
Is there an Air Ministry order that we have nissed???
These a/c were all end '44-45 era.
Any ideas??
Stefaan

[Franek Grabowski]

All Spitfires had been delivered in camouflage, perhaps with exception of post war late Mk 22/24s. There were several Spitfires in MTO with removed paint, for example MJ250 UF-Q in the summer 1944. I cannot say who, when and why but it was apparently such aircraft delivered to 40 SAAF Sqn.
BTW
Have you found any photos or mentions of Polish Spitfires and pilots in Italy?

[stefaan]

Hi Franek.

That is what is reported by the pilots.I find it funny that the RAF insist
on USA a/c had to be cammouflagred but they themselves can deliver in nat metal.
No I have never seen any photo's or names in the photo albums.
I think there may have been Polish pilots in 7 or 8 Wings,as they had other nationalities flying with them.
They were mostly in the RAF sqns in our SAAF wings.there info will be in the archives relavent to those RAF sqns.
Stefaan

[Franek Grabowski]

Stefaan
Removing camouflage was a local initiative and nothing approoved by the RAF. Natural metal had no advantages from operational point of view, performance also remained unaffected.

[SteveB]

Stefaan/Franek

It has taken me a little while to find a document in my files. In among some MAAF papers at the National Archives/PRO I have found an odd, isolated, very brief "Loose Minute" (there were no other documents around it that linked to the same issue). It reads simply:

TO: WAR ORG

SILVER SPITFIRES

The unpainted Spitfire IXs which are being prepared may be sent as normal replacements to any T.A.F. Spitfire Wings except those in Corsica.

Wing Commander
Combat Operations
21st May 1944

Clearly this is not much more help whether your first language is Afrikaans or Polish it is not totally clear in English! The note seems to confirm that the command system knew that NMF Spitfires existed and did not regard this as a problem. The words "which are being prepared" could mean that the a/c were stripped in the Med rather than delivered unpainted.

In the excellent book "Spitfires in SAAF Service" by Steve McLaren there are several photos of NMF Spitfires which are ALL referred to as Special HF MkIXs. Are those the photos that Stefaan refers to?

I believe there was quite a lot of experimentation in the ME with suitable colour schemes for high flying Spitfires. Is it possible that the paint was stripped because the colours in which a/c were delivered were thought unsuitable of high altitude work? In saying this I realise that NMF finish is unlikely to be a suitable replacement "camouflage".

Every little bit helps (sometimes)

Steve

[Graham Boak]

Not quite true, Franek. Stripping the paint off will save quite a bit of weight, and the resulting metal finish (if properly done) will be slightly smoother than the paint, thus reducing skin-friction drag slightly. It won't make the aircraft fly noticeably faster, but will allow it to claw a little extra altitude. So it would be a reasonable thing to try if you needed to operate on or near the ceiling of the fighter - to intercept an Ar.234, perhaps.

Can this scheme can be linked to HF-engined airframes?

[Franek Grabowski]

Nope, Graham. Surface was puttied and primed before painting and thus offered a much better smoothness. Note that Mustangs always had puttied and painted wings! Weight penalty was minor, a few kilos or pounds, so I would say weight of a pilot was a much more important factor.
Oh, those are not my conclusions but of the RAF - see Paul Lucas' home based aircraft 1945-1950.
PS You certainly mean Ju 86?

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by SteveB

TO: WAR ORG

SILVER SPITFIRES

The unpainted Spitfire IXs which are being prepared may be sent as normal replacements to any T.A.F. Spitfire Wings except those in Corsica.

Wing Commander
Combat Operations
21st May 1944

Stefaan

I have been away on business for a few days.

You asked about this document. It is from the National Archives (PRO) at Kew. It comes from AIR51 I do not have the precise details of which piece in AIR51. The papers are from SHAEF and from MAAF HQ. All the records are on microfilm which was apparently made many years ago it is poor quality and often completely illegible/indecipherable. As far as I know this document has no link to a particular Wing it seems to me it was sent from MAAF HQ to all Wings(?). There is no confusion over the date so it would seem that it does not link with a/c being operated in NMF during 1943.

I hope this helps a bit I cannot add anything further

Steve

[stefaan]

Thanks.

Stefaan