RAF (?) bomber crashed near Antwerp 1940

[RudiS]

Hi everyone,

attached is a picture with the remains of what looks like an RAF bomber. The caption on the back states "Antwerp 1940".

- Does anyone recognizes the type?
- Does anyone have more information about this crash?

Kind regards,
Rudi.

[robert]

Hi,

it could be Wellington.

Regards

Robert

[Icare9]

That certainly is the geodesic framework and fabric of a Wellington. There just doesn't seem to be enough of it, just looks like one tailplane and rear turret. By the look of the equipment the soldiers are posing with, looks as if the rear gunner didn't get to bale out.
There doesn't seem to be any further way of identifying which aircraft or even Squadron. Obviously as no helmets worn or cold weather gear I'd guess after Dunkirk and probably lost on the raids on the invasion barges. Possibly Sept 7th but that's my best guess.....
Ah, had a trawl through Bombers Lost and just inputting the year only 3 Wellingtons appeared and 2 were near Antwerp!
So one candidate is:
Wellington Serial Number P9298 115 Squadron KO-H Operation Cambrai 20th May 1940
Airborne 2345 20 May 40 from Marham to attack enemy transport in the Cambrai - Le Cateau - Cambresis St.Quentin triangle. Crashed, killing the entire crew, cause not established. They are now buried in the Schoonselhof Cemetery at Antwerpen, Belgium
F/S L.G. Moores KIA
Sgt A.H. Hooper KIA
Sgt K.W. Hughes KIA
AC1 G.E. Flanigan KIA
AC1 J.T. Packer KIA
AC2 D. Duggan KIA
The other is Wellington Serial Number T2505 9 Squadron WS-W. Operation Cologne 28th September 1940. T2505 was one of two No.9 Sqdn Wellingtons lost on this night on two separate operations. See: T2472. Airborne from Honington. Crashed near Antwerp, Belgium. Cause unknown. Sgt Oliver survived, but his crew were all killed and are now buried in the Schoonselhof Cemetery, Antwerp.
Sgt C.W.Oliver was confined in Hospital due injuries. No PoW No.
Sgt K.B.Gladwin KIA
Sgt L.W.Hardy KIA
Sgt J.Woods KIA
Sgt E.J.Milsom KIA
Sgt S.G.Brooker KIA
You can guess which I favour.
I haven't gone through all the returns of Wellingtons from 1 Jan to 31 Dec 1940, 7 pages, but you are welcome to do so to find any others!
Hope this helps!

[Larry Hickey]

Rudi,

I'd would highly favor the Sept. 28, 1940, loss. The May 20th one appears too early based on the appearance of the personnel, and the way that they are uniformed, in the two photos in this sequence.

Regards,

Larry

[RudiS]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's very much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Rudi.

[montana]

The Wellington KO-H (P9298) from the 115 Sqn was shot down by Flak and crashed at Tourpes (Hainaut). The remains of the airmen were transferred to the Schoonselhof on September 13 1946.

[Icare9]

montana: Thanks for that additional information.
As I am trying to research a suspected flak loss on 4th Dec 1943 (see Halifax HR732 thread) I hope you have access to flak records from around Hamburg to the Rhine on the WSW track from Leipzig. I believe there were 2 at least, (Weiler and Bad Munster am Stein) and hopefully there is at least one more. We really want to find the location, and although they are probably in Rheinburg as unknowns, perhaps we could at least locate the plot.
Appreciate your help in advance, whatever you find will take us one step further......
and if anyone else can help, please speak up!

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I have the RAF Bomber Command Losses books by Chorley, but this doesn't provide crew positions for these losses. For the 28.9.40 Wellington loss, is there any way to tell from the listing who the pilot was? The first listed? What about the other crew positions? Any way to tell what each person's crew position was?

Regards,

[robert]

Hi,

this Wellington was returning from bomb mission to Koeln when shot down by Flak.
9 Sqn WS-W T2505 Wellington Ic hit by flak and crashed down N of Antwerp.
Sgt C.O.Oliver (pilot) POW
Sgt. Kenneth Bruce Gladwin (2nd pilot) KIA
Sgt. Leonard William Hardy (observer) KIA
Sgt. Edward John Milsom (wireless operator) KIA
Sgt. Jack Woods (wireless operator) KIA
Sgt. Sydney George Brooker (gunner) KIA

Regards

Robert

[Icare9]

Robert, thanks for the extra detail
Larry:
Yes, Lost Bombers follows the convention of naming
Pilot
2nd pilot or later, a Flight Engineer
Navigator
Bomb aimer /gunner (front)
Wireless/Radar Operator
Air Gunner (mid upper)
Air Gunner (rear)
for a typical 7 man heavy bomber.
For smaller crews, it just omits the positions missing
so a Blenheim would have
Pilot
Navigator
Gunner
for example
Some Lancasters carried an extra member of the crew for "special duties" usually a German speaker to broadcast false messages to nghtfighters to lure them away from the bomber stream.
Now, who's going to identify the Germans, and why one wears different boots to the rest? They look to have retrieved quite a bit of kit, parachute(s) leather briefcase, sheepskin jacket and poignantly one boot.
It looks as if the remnants of the rear turret are just visible.