Luftwaffe Losses Detailed Information

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Matti

Good point. I was hesitant to express such an idea myself.

From memory only, is their any other recorded instance where the STKZ vs the WNr has been either partly or fully scrambled? Must confess I cannot think of any....

Cheers
Stig

[Gerhard]

Thanks to all who contributed so far.

But we still have some problems, I'll try to summarize:

1st: Seaplanes writes (post #15):
"W.Nr. 7089 was never assigned a Stammkennzeichen as it was reserved for DLH use when this series was planned by JFM (D-ASHY "Gustav Dörr"). Consequently there will be a "gap" in the Stammkennzeichen used for W.Nr. 7081 (DD+ZA) and W.Nr. 7107 (DD+ZZ)."

This means: 7081-7107 = 27 aircraft, which makes 26 for Luftwaffe + WNr 7089 for Lufthansa - could be ok.
BUT: 7081 is frequently reported as KB+QZ (the last from a batch 7070-7081 as KB+QP to KB+QZ with WNr 7077 for Lufthansa).
So DD+ZA should be 7082, not 7081; so DD+ZA to DD+ZZ should be 7082-7107 which would leave no gap for Lufthansa 7089.
AND: 7108 is frequently reported as DE+TA, the first from the next batch.
We still have to find out the exact WNr sequence for DD+ZA to DD+ZZ!

2nd: the loss reports:
version 1: DD+ZV, DD+ZX, DD+ZY are 7103, 7105, 7106
version 2: DD+ZV, DD+ZX, DD+ZY are ????, 7103, 7104
How do the different loss reports match the correct WNr sequence?

Gerhard

[Tom Willis]

The Ju52/3m Stkz & civil Regs list can be confusing, frustrating and complex all at the same time. My last note at post 12 I forgot to add a note saying that DD+ZA may not have been used for the Ju52/3m (I have either Ju88 V59 - 700002 or Ju88V106 - 620520). Sometimes not all 26 letters were used, often they were split up. Some started at A or B or mid-stream or ended with V-W-X-Y and Z. Yes, to confuse Air Intelligence a split system was used and some manufacturers were better at it than others. To stick with this theme I have the following

7042 - 7052 KB+RA to RK = 7053 EC-CAJ/EC-ABD/D-AQIJ
7054 - 7064 KB+RL to RV = 7065 D-ARBW
7066 - 7069 KB+RW - RZ = 7070 - 7076 KB+QP - KB+QV
7077 D-ASDI = 7078 - 7081 KB+QW - QZ
7082 - 7088 DD+ZB - ZH = 7089 D-ASHY
7090 - 7107 DD+ZI - ZZ = 7108 - 7133 DE+TA - TZ
7134 - 7150 KD+IA - IQ

The missing sequences were most often used by the same company but on a different type and production line - eg: KD+IR to IZ was used on the Ju88A-5
But do not take it as read that any source is definative - often mistakes were made, sometimes these were later corrected but not all. Using various sources will help to cross-check but these also can have conflicting information.
Hope this helps and not clouded the water too much.

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

The missing sequences were most often used by the same company but on a different type and production line - eg: KD+IR to IZ was used on the Ju88A-5
Using various sources will help to cross-check but these also can have conflicting information.

... regarding Startkladde Göttingen the KD+IR was an Ju52 too.

[RT]

Probably a mistake, he was a frequent guest in Göttingen, was owned by FFS C5 nd usually wore KD+IB

Rémi

[Tom Willis]

Although listed on a Gottingen airfield Document KD+IR appears to be a typo for KD+IB which I have with FFS(C)5 12-42 to 01-43

[Gerhard]

Tom,

many thanks for your posts, especially #23, which clears the general picture of the WNr sequences.

But we still have the problem of the loss details:
version 1: DD+ZV, DD+ZX, DD+ZY are 7103, 7105, 7106
version 2: DD+ZV, DD+ZX, DD+ZY are ????, 7103, 7104

Any chance to resolve these?

Gerhard