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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Not doing enough on this site recently, so, back to Target documents. It seems that Harbour (class 45) installations, docks and warehouses, might be useful. Here are the basis of Nos 1-115
London 45 1 London 45 2 London West India Docks 45 3 London Rotherhithe 45 4 London West India Docks 45 5 Tilbury. 45 6 Lowestoft 45 7 Great Yarmouth 45 8 London 45 9 Middlesborough 45 10 Portland Weymouth 45 11 West Hartlepool 45 12 Barrow in Furness 45 13 Barrow in Furness 45 14 Falmouth 45 15 Cowes 45 16 Holyhead 45 17 Sharpness 45 18 Unknown 45 19 Unknown 45 20 Hull 45 21 Hull 45 22 Hull 45 23 Hull 45 24 Hull 45 25 Immingham 45 26 Grimsby 45 27 Grimsby 45 28 Unknown 45 29 Southampton 45 30 Southampton 45 31 Southampton 45 32 Southampton 45 33 Southampton 45 34 Plymouth 45 35 Plymouth 45 36 Plymouth 45 37 Unknown 45 38 Greenock 45 39 Greenock 45 40 glasgow 45 41 glasgow 45 42 glasgow 45 43 Glasgow 45 44 Clyde Bank 45 45 Unknown 45 46 Fraserburgh 45 47 Runcorn 45 48 Manchester 45 49 Bristol 45 50 Bristol 45 51 Bristol 45 52 Unknown 45 53 Avonmouth 45 54 Avonmouth 45 55 Bristol Portishead 45 56 Unknown 45 57 Cardiff 45 58 Cardiff 45 59 Cardiff 45 60 Cardiff 45 61 Unknown 45 62 Barry 45 63 Port Talbot 45 64 Swansea 45 65 Swansea 45 66 Swansea 45 67 Swansea 45 68 Barry 45 69 Newcastle on Tyne 45 70 Newcastle on Tyne 45 71 Newcastle on Tyne 45 72 Sunderland 45 73 Milford Haven 45 74 Fishbuard 45 75 Leith 45 76 Leith 45 77 Leith 45 78 Sunderland 45 79 Dundee 45 80 Birkenhead 45 81 Birkenhead/East Float Dock 45 82 Birkenhead/East Float Dock 45 83 Birkenhead Dock 45 84 Liverpool 45 85 Liverpool Bootle 45 86 Liverpool Sandon, Wellington & Bramley 45 87 Liverpool 45 88 Birkenhead 45 89 Liverpool 45 90 Liverpool 45 91 Liverpool 45 92 Liverpool 45 93 Liverpool 45 94 Liverpool 45 95 Liverpool 45 96 Bromborough 45 97 Ellesmere Port 45 98 Unknown 45 99 Manchester 45 100 Manchester 45 101 Manchester Salford 45 102 Unknown 45 103 Leith 45 104 Leith 45 105 Unknown 45 106 Unknown 45 107 Grangemouth 45 108 Grangemouth 45 109 Grangemouth 45 110 Grangemouth 45 111 Alloa 45 112 Burntisland 45 113 Burntisland 45 114 Methill 45 115 Probably a few errors, but mainly right. Keep well everybody. Best. ChrisG |
#2
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
and moving swiftly on, here's the remaining harbours and docks of which I am aware. Probably some spelling and number glitches, but useful nevertheless. 500s for ireland, and one 800 issue in Scotland. Id be grateful if anyone can plug the Unknowns.
Burntisland 45 113 Unknown 45 114 Methil 45 115 Whitby 45 116 Cardiff 45 117 Llanelly 45 118 Unknown 45 119 Briton Ferry Hafen 45 120 Bridgewater Hafen 45 121 Lyfney Hafen 45 122 Gloucester 45 123 Neath b Swansea Hafen 45 124 Chepstow 45 125 Port Dinorwic Hafen 45 126 Beaumaris 45 127 Barnstaple 45 128 Unknown 45 129 Chester (sic) 45 130 Bangor hafenanlagen 45 131 Scaborough Hafenanlage 45 132 Goole Hafenanlage 45 133 Unknown 45 134 Unknown 45 135 Kings Lynn Hafenanlage 45 136 Ipswich Hafen 45 137 Harwich Hafen 45 138 Rochester Hafenanlage 45 139 Ramsgate Hafenanlagen 45 140 Sandwich Hafen von Sandwich-Richborough 45 141 Folkestone 45 142 Hastings 45 143 Newhaven Hafenanlagen 45 144 Unknown 45 145 Unknown 45 146 Unknown 45 147 Unknown 45 148 Unknown 45 149 Unknown 45 150 Unknown 45 151 Unknown 45 152 Unknown 45 153 Unknown 45 154 Unknown 45 155 Unknown 45 156 Unknown 45 157 Unknown 45 158 Unknown 45 159 Unknown 45 160 Unknown 45 161 Unknown 45 162 Unknown 45 163 Unknown 45 164 Freeston 45 165 Unknown 45 166 Unknown 45 167 Unknown 45 168 Unknown 45 169 Unknown 45 170 Unknown 45 171 Unknown 45 172 Unknown 45 173 Unknown 45 174 Unknown 45 175 Unknown 45 176 Unknown 45 177 Greenock 45 178 Greenock 45 179 Unknown 45 180 Unknown 45 181 Belfast 45 182 Penarth 45 183 Wicklow 45 500 Dublin 45 501 Kingstown 45 502 Wexford 45 503 Waterford 45 504 Queenstown 45 505 Cork 45 506 Unknown 45 507 Unknown 45 508 Unknown 45 509 Limerick 45 510 Unknown 45 511 Unknown 45 512 Rosslare 45 513 Lossiemouth 45 800 All the best ChrisG |
#3
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Hi Chris
What would be the context of these file refs? Or where were you able to gather them from? The latter few are in neutral Ireland.
__________________
regards Dennis Burke Foreign Aircraft in Ireland 1939-1945 http://www.ww2irishaviation.com |
#4
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Chris,
Belated thanks for these - very useful
__________________
Best Regards Andy Mitchell LuftwaffeData Wiki including the history of Aufklgr. 122 |
#5
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Andy,
You are very welcome. I've been a bit quiet recently because of work and other pressures, but I look forward to plugging some of the Unknowns, and getting a few more details into the lists. Dennis, Hello The Eire target documents were among the 'Dick Tracy' seizure I think. I appreciate that Eire was neutral, but the Targeting folks in the RLM clearly got the bit between their teeth, to the extent of classifying their own harbours and other targets using the same system. Clearly they did not intend to bomb themselves -or Eire-, but somewhere along the way the desire to classify these 'objectives' overcame objections that these were sites in Neutral territory -or indeed their own bailiwick. But I think some of the more significant Eire targets were printed up as sets. PM me if you want more... Best ChrisG |
#6
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Thanks Chris
I'll get back to you soon hopefully
__________________
regards Dennis Burke Foreign Aircraft in Ireland 1939-1945 http://www.ww2irishaviation.com |
#7
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Hello Chris
Do you have any targets for Leicestershire please, such as steel works etc etc. Thank you Austin |
#8
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
Hello Bombphoon
You have got me there, for the simple reason that I have not put together (by location) a full list of GAF UK Target documents. OK. There are some 3,000 known allocated UK target numbers. We don’t know the identities of all of the targets (hence the ‘Unknowns’ in my various lists). Also, not all target sets survive, so one can end up having a known target, and knowing its number, but not have a document set. We can also have a likely target (a steelworks for example), and know it must be one of the ‘Unknowns’ in the category lists -see end of this note. So who has holdings of target documents? Well, the IWM has a holding, and there is a holding at NARA (Archives 2, MD). But I think they are only about 75% duplicates of each other. There is also the so called Chiévres hoard in Mons Museum (some years ago, so the situation may be different now). Each has some unique target sets. The biggest category is Airfields (Class 10), which is about 20% of all target numbers. Now, looking at the NARA list of UK Targets, for Leicester we have sets for targets 50/9, and 10/126 (the latter of course, is an airfield). Now, listed in the IWM list is Leicester Gaswerk (No 52/5). This is not in the NARA list as far as I know, but there is also a set in the so called Chiévres hoard (see above). So, the best way to advance this mess is to go through the Dick Tracy catalogue of TM material (a tautology, I know) at NARA, talk nicely to IWM and get a list of theirs, and then Mons, for their list. There are also loads of City street maps overprinted by the Germans with endless categories of breweries, waterworks, sewage works, industrial plant, hospitals, etc which are usually offered by auction houses who think these are bombing maps and thus ask for silly prices. They are not but the point is, if you can get one of Leicester, you will be able to pick off the gasworks, steelworks, dog tracks, etc which THEY have highlighted or otherwise identified, and you will have a list of targets for which, as like as not, target sets would have been in preparation, or printed up (but which are now unknowns). Another way, is to get all of the target Stammkennzeichnen (which will be with the sets), as on these are often listed numbers of nearby targets. By this route, little by little, it should be possible to whittle down the number of ‘unknowns’. I’m in the process of writing some of this up, so if you like, I will keep you posted on progress. Best ChrisG |
#9
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
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#10
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Re: More GAF UK Targets. Harbours 1-115
It might seem amazing that there isn’t a definitive list of UK targets -or captured target documents, but when one thinks about it further, one gets a bit more sanguine.
One of the things the Western Allies were keen to do in the early Cold war era was keep under wraps what they actually had secured in 1945-6: films, prints, target documents, the lot- so while there was quite a vast amount of cataloguing and evaluation of documents seized (the so called ‘Turban’ programme) this tended to be written up in reports and lists which got destroyed when they were ‘perished’ (in service terms). There’s a report commenced in 1949 which aimed to record the ‘prehistory of Turban’ before memories faded (the author of it noted that there had been a dislike of writing things down and a ‘preference for the telephone’ among Turban personnel), and there is a document by a slightly demob-happy guy in 1960 which is in the UK National Archives, which is a great read. These are rare survivals. Unless documents and lists were declared to be ‘Historic’, a process not everything went through, they were destroyed. I’m not sure when the Chièvres hoard (got accent wrong last time) turned up -probably soon after the area was freed in late 1944 at a guess, but Dick Tracy was May-June 45, and the IWM stuff probably from 21 AG and a mix of this and that. They were once all catalogued, but precious little of that has come down to us after 77 years. Best ChrisG Last edited by Chris Going; 17th November 2022 at 16:02. |
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