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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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#1
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Part from P-51B of P-51D?
Hi, the photograph shows a bracket for the hydraulic hand pump support in the fuselage. The part number is 102-58607. It was found in Lake Wolderwijd, former lake IJsselmeer aka Zuiderzee. Most logical is that the part is from P-51D 44-13411 334FS/4FG which crashed on 20 November 1944 in the lake: several parts of that machine have been found and most part of the plane was salvaged in 1970. According to the Parts Catalog 01-60JD-4 of 1 June 1944 the bracket is from a P-51 B-model.. The Parts Catalog from the P-51D doesn't mention this part...who can clarify? |
#2
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
The P-51D did not have the hand hydraulic pump.
Here is a video which gets into a cockpit tour of a P-51B. At the 3:35 point, the narrator points out the hand pump and comments that the P-51D did not have one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVWtL77f12c You can also look at page 5 of the P-51D manual http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...l-5april44.pdf It notes that "No emergency hydraulic hand pump is provided." |
#3
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
Part 102-58607 shows up in the P-51B Parts Catalogue and is item 4 in the attached figure.
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#4
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
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#5
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
Thanks for this. Can we exclude that early models P-51D were modified with a handpump?
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#6
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
According to Joe Baugher's site:
44-13411 (4th FG, 334th FS) in midair collision over Zuider Zee, Holland Nov 20, 1944. MACR 10535. Wreckage recovered 1970; Zuid-Flevoland and 44-13615 (4th FG, 334th FS) in midair collison over Zuider Zee, Holland Nov 20, 1944. MACR 10536. Parts recovered 1978; Veluwemeer. Did they collide with each other? Both are model: North American P-51D-5-NA |
#7
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
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#8
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
In the version of the P-51D/K parts catalogue that I have the hydraulic hand pump and associated parts are clearly listed and illustrated...the pump assembly is 106/109-580241. Two parts "Angle assembly - hydraulic hand pump mounting RH & LH" are listed 106-58737 and -1.
Steve |
#9
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
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It seems a hard nut to crack... |
#10
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Re: Part from P-51B of P-51D?
I am beginning to wonder if the sequence of events could be as follows. The first models of the P-51D did not have a hand pump. The hand pump was used in earlier P-51 models to move the flaps.
This quote is from P-51 pilots check list: http://www.aerofiles.com/checklist-p51.html "There is NO emergency wing flap operation provided on the P-51D, as the hand pump has been eliminated. On all earlier models of the P-51, put flap selector to desired position and operate the hand pump until it seizes. Flaps will be in desired position and will stay there until another selection is made." Suppose that then field modifications (perhaps not "official") were made to install the Model B hand pump in the Model D because of pilot demand. Next, at some point, the hand pump (now with model D numbers) was added back to the model D and K P-51 construction as Steve B's parts catalog seems to show. There is also a "late" version of the P-51 D/K parts catalog that can be downloaded from here: https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...catalog.50278/ What is interesting is the section on the "hand pump" (now called part number 109-580243 which supersedes part number 106/109-580241) has a notation that the hand pump will come wrapped in felt and is stowed as loose equipment. It will not be factory installed. I would appear that the AAF went "back and forth" on whether the hand pump should be in the model D/K. Finally they just made it "optional" and included a pump that could be field installed if desired. If this theory is correct, it would appear that the Model B pump bracket that was found was part of the Model D that crashed. It seems unlikely there also is a complete "P-51B" at the same crash site. Last edited by RSwank; 24th November 2019 at 18:21. |
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