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Old 22nd November 2017, 17:26
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
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Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Back in the 1980s, I made an attempt to find out what happened to Oberst Gunther Lutzow of JV-44. He was lost near Donauworth during combat. Since I could never determine his fate at the time, I gave up and moved on.

Since then, aviation historians and researchers have worked tirelessly to identify crash sites. I find it very odd that his crash site has never been discovered. I mean, when an aircraft crashes, it leaves a huge impact crater and wreckage. Aviation historians should have identified it by now.

Which leads to me this: Did his Me-262 crash in a lake or river? If he crashed on land, his wreckage would have been found and identified. If he crashed in water, everything would have disappeared.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 19:07
Von Alles Von Alles is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

According "JV44" by R Forsyth, a plane was seen crashing into the ruins of the city of Donauwörth in a land between Sternschanzenstrasse and a hill named Kalvareinberg. No crash record has been found still today.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 19:22
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

From my forthcoming book:

On the afternoon of 24 April 1945, he was scrambled to intercept B-26 Marauders of the 17th Bomb Group which was attacking ammunition dumps at Schwabmünchen. It is possible that he shot down a B-26, the 34th Bomb Squadron reporting the loss of aircraft flown by Lt Fred Harms and Lt Leigh Slates, the former crashing at Oberoth, the latter at Unterschönegg. P-47 Thunderbolts flown by Capt Jerry Mast and Lt William Myers of 388th Fighter Sqn/365 Fighter Group then reported chasing an Me 262 which crashed near Schrobenhausen at 1525 hrs.

I was flying Red Two position on Maj J R Hill's wing on an escort mission. Near the target area, four Me 262s bounced the bombers. During the ensuing dog fight, I saw a single Me 262 heading towards Red Flt. At this time I started to call Elwood Red Leader as to the position of the plane but he banked sharply and I thought he had already seen him. A minute later I heard someone call "I lost him". Believing this was my Leader, I immediately rolled over and dove down of the aircraft which was now heading down. I headed straight down cutting him off indicating better that 600 mph. I figured I could shoot him down as soon as he started to pull out. He started to pull out once but apparently saw either Capt Mast's or my own plane bearing down on him and immediately went into a steeper dive from which he never recovered. He hit the ground and exploded. I had to black myself out to keep from hitting the ground. 2/Lt William H Myers

The only recorded loss this day was the Me 262 flown by Lützow who was last seen near Donauworth, about 50 km north-west of Schrobenhausen. He is still reported as missing.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 03:01
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Thank you gentlemen for your input. I just find it very strange that his crash site was never determined. I need to move on.
Thanks again!
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Old 23rd November 2017, 10:01
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

If this is his Me 262, it would appear that there was very little of the aircraft to be found after such a dive
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Old 23rd November 2017, 11:31
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that he crashed in a deserted area. The crash was only witnessed by a few workers of an aero factory nearby who were leaving as fast as hell and had no time to investigate. There was nobody left in town to record the crash site.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 13:41
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Hi Guys

The P-47 pilots story makes sense, though I believe Steinhoff was informed that Lützow in his inexperience with the jet flew through the B-26 formation straight into the ground, seems they thought he misjudged both speed and ability to pull-up. Could be the P-47 pilot fired on an aircraft already going down, or as his comrades didn't believe was just pulling-out of the dive.

Steinhoff mentioned that Lützow hadn't flown combat for three years, and was rather afraid.

Johannes
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Old 23rd November 2017, 13:50
lilsis lilsis is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

they still are in search (text in german)

http://www.donaukurier.de/lokales/sc...r;art603,48867

http://www.donaukurier.de/lokales/sc...;art603,357793

regards
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Old 23rd November 2017, 14:06
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Hi Chris

Where is Oberoth?

According to a French author (Philippe Saintes),the B-26C (42-107729)"stud Duck" was shot down near Babenhausen by Fw.Otto Kammerdiener (Me.262 "white 3") with R4M.

the B-26B (s/n 42-95786) 34°Bsq was shot down (probably) by collision with a Me.262 (JV 44):Oberfahnrich not identified and reported missing in action.

Michel
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Old 23rd November 2017, 14:26
lilsis lilsis is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Hello ,

if you mean Oberroth that is Landkreis Neu-Ulm (Regio Babenhausen)

regards
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