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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#71
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
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I am sorry that you weren't able to find loss information for individual aircraft, but I wonder whether overall loss statistics are available in one form or another. You see, I am looking for that sort of information, that is monthly and yearly loss data, rather than individual aircraft fates. In view of the above, I wonder if the KTBs and "Situation reports" contain monthly, or even weekly, loss summaries, so that it's not necessary to look at every single file to get a total figure. Do the RAF Intelligence reports concern RAF operations, or British assessments of Luftwaffe operations? Is the loss chart for 1944 the same that I summarized in a previous post in this thread? Regards, Paul Thompson |
#72
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Paul
I just looked at sample films on LW Situation Reports as these on operation matters, of no interest to me. If you send you address to my private message section I will put the RAF Intel that I copied on a CD and you can judge this data yourself. From memory there were about 30 volumes, they are in the IWM Library section not the general collection. Regards Tony |
#73
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Hello Tony,
I've just sent you a PM. Regards, Paul Thompson |
#74
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Below is the summary JG loss data for 1943 in the Mediterranean, from Volume 11/I of JFV:
KIA/MIA 356 POW 28 WIA/INJ 236 Written Off (60-100%) 1092 Damaged (10-60%) 826 Can anyone supply the equivalent data from Volume 12/I, to enable a comparison with the Eastern Front in the same period? |
#75
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Paul
The bound volumes in the private Library at IWM Duxford are titled "Air Ministry Weekly Intel Reports" In 1940 they list known German losses under headings 1) RAF "bomber/fighter/coastal" 2) French then 3) Dutch The 1944 sample losses I copied was from 9/1/44 to 16/1/44 Regards Tony |
#76
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
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That sounds like a very good source. Am I correct in assuming that the German losses are those when aircraft crash sites were located, or at least clearly observed? Regards, Paul Thompson |
#77
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Hope it wasn't just a re-typed version of this one?
All the best Andreas
__________________
The CRUSADER Project - Research into Operation CRUSADER 1941/42 |
#78
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
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Hopefully not, but let's wait for Tony Jones to clear that up. Meanwhile here is some data from AHB translation VII/152, in Air 20/7710: Luftwaffe Losses - Eastern Front (Sep/Dec 1943) Month br Enemy Destr br Enemy Dam br Operations Destr br Operations Dam br Non-operational Dest br Non-operational Dam September br 232 br 92 br 82 br 98 br 39 br 56 October br 205 br 106 br 73 br 105 br 20 br 52 November br 107 br 57 br 42 br 59 br 38 br 52 December br 110 br 46 br 23 br 36 br 42 br 54 4 Month sum br 654 br 301 br 220 br 298 br 139 br 214 Regards, Paul Thompson |
#79
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
There's something interesting and quite unexpected in the Air translations at Kew. Since I believe it may be quite significant, I've provided a detailed explanation below:
The files in question are Air 20/7709, 20/7710 and 20/7711. These are volumes X through XII of the RAF translations of captured enemy documents. What they contain are not translations of German documents, but rather summaries of Luftwaffe losses, based on the 6th Abteilung loss lists. The surprising thing is, even though the loss lists for 1944 are lost, these tables, produced by the AHB in 1954 and 55, contain tables for 1944. The reports are titled "Air Historical Branch Translation No. VII," numbers 133-136, 138, 139, 145-152 and 157. A sample summary of monthly losses, for the end of 1943 on the Eastern front, is in my post above. The level of detail in the table strongly suggests that the AHB had the 1944 loss lists, or some equivalent, available to them. Any ideas as to what their primary source might have been? The loss tables cover the following periods and fronts: Western Front - September 1943 through November 1944, except August 1944 Defence of the Reich - June 1943 through June 1944 Norway (Luftflotte 5 West - marked this way in the source) - September through December 1943 and then July through November 1944 Mediterranean - September through December 1943 and then July through November 1944 Eastern Front - September through December 1943 only Is a more complete set of these tables available in some other archive? Paul Thompson |
#80
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Re: Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification
Hi Paul,
These AHB translations are also available at the Australian War Memorial, and at NARA in the United States (Record Group 549). The AWM has the following: - September 1939-December 1940 - January 1941-December 1941 - Western Front, 1 September 1943-31 December 1943 - Western Front, January 1944-April 1944 - Western Front, May 1944 - Western Front, June 1944 - Western Front, 1 July 1944-31 August 1944 - Western Front, 1 September 1944-30 November 1944 - Befehlshaber Mitte, 1 June 1943-31 August 1943 - Luftflotte Reich, 1 September 1943-31 December 1943 - Luftflotte Reich, January 1944-April 1944 - Luftflotte Reich, May 1944 - Luftflotte Reich, June 1944 - Luftflotte Reich, July 1944-September 1944 - Luftflotte Reich, October 1944-November 1944 - Eastern Front, 1 September 1943-31 December 1943 - Norway, 1 September 1943-31 December 1943 - Norway, 1 July 1944-30 November 1944 - Mediterranean, 1 September 1943-31 December 1943 - Mediterranean, 1 July 1944-30 November 1944 I've got a couple of them. These tables provide exactly the same information as the Summarische Verluste documents that Andreas Brekken has kindly made available on his website. However, the AHB translations summarise losses at a higher level than the Summarische Verluste documents, the latter being at a Staffel/Gruppe level, and the AHB translations at Luftflotte/theatre level. Cheers, Andrew A. Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com |
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