RAF Bomber Command use of anti-personnel submunitions?

[Bombphoon]

Though little mentioned, the RAF had the following cluster submunitions:

Cluster Projectile 500-lb. No. 7 Mk I - x56 8-lb. F. Bombs Mk II

Cluster Projectile 500-lb. No. 17 Mk II - x26 F. 20-lb. Bomb Mk II (for No. 17 Mk II)

Cluster Projectile 350-lb. No. 23 Mk I - x14 AN-M41 20-lb. (modified)

Cluster Projectile 500-lb. No. 24 Mk I - x20 AN-M41 20-lb. (modified)

My question is: did RAF Bomber Command use these weapons against German towns or cities in WW2 (possibly in combination with other bomb ordnance)?

With thanks.

[MW Giles]

Not seen any sign of use for towns and cities

The bombs are not going to be much use against structures, compared with a conventional bomb

Personnel on the streets are not really the target - most people are in cellars and air raid shelters

Might have been of use against flak positions. While flak was bombed it was usually when the main target could not be found. Never seen an operation to attack flak specifically

Therefore, to answer your question, I think no

Might be worth looking at the army support missions in 1944, but again I think conventional 500lb bombs were dropped

I have seen photos of Typhoons carrying these bombs

Martin

[Zoran Petek]

Hello,

Example of anti-flak ops.

21 SQUADRON S.A.A.F. OPREP NO. 971 20 MARCH, 1945
RAID ON DOBOVA M/YARDS pp E. 282020 OPERATION No.173.
T/Off 1330
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
561 B: Maj Musgrave Goble Hatswell Jones Cpt. Rabie Cook.
519 G: Lt. Stuart Watermeyer Owen Hughes Fraser Howden Du Plessis
474 D: F/O Hanna McDonald T Dickenson Oldfield vd Berg Ras
513 Hv: Lt. Fraser Jandrell du Plessis Richardson Barrow Jenner
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
577 U: Lt. Muir Dale Lister Jenker Foster Rourke
471 R: Collender Gillam Deane Benson Banfield Suter
583 V: Lt. Quail Louwrens Winn Douglas Wilson Solomon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
429 A: Lt. Isted Williams Gelb Bedford Botha Collins
545 K: Lt. Hussey Quaife Wells Boast Kennedy Pienaar
539 T: P/O Long Markham Naude Goodwin Dodson McHugh
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anti Flak Ships:-
537 YY: Lt. Becke Newer Johnstone Gidley Heale McCausland
550 C: Lt. Reyneke Cordell Harle Hennesey Tennant Cloete
Times:- The following A/C:
C...3.40 hrs.
D...3.10 hrs.
G.....30 mins
The rest....3.25 hrs.

All 4 Sqns of 3 SAAF Wing attacked: 12, 21, 24 and 30 Sqn SAAF, with Mustang escorts of 239 Wing DAF, Each Marauder Sqn had 2 anti-flak ships: in 24 Sqn one was "Z", known from Matchbox kit; 30 Sqn SAAF "Z" and "B";
12 Sqn SAAF HD533 and HD553, coded "B" and "O".

Regards
Zoran

[MW Giles]

Zoran

The question was about Bomber Command!

Regards

Martin

[Bombphoon]

Originally Posted by MW Giles

Not seen any sign of use for towns and cities

The bombs are not going to be much use against structures, compared with a conventional bomb

Personnel on the streets are not really the target - most people are in cellars and air raid shelters

Might have been of use against flak positions. While flak was bombed it was usually when the main target could not be found. Never seen an operation to attack flak specifically

Therefore, to answer your question, I think no

Might be worth looking at the army support missions in 1944, but again I think conventional 500lb bombs were dropped

I have seen photos of Typhoons carrying these bombs

Martin

There was a precedent - the Luftwaffe used SD2s APBs as anti-firemen weapons on raids to help their conflagrations.

[MW Giles]

There was a lot of use of delayed action bombs and some were fitted with tamper resistant fuses. I cannot remember which one but there was one fuse that the armourers hated having to deal with if a bomber returned with bombs on board

Some of the 4lb incendiaries also had a small explosive charge added, again to deter firefighting.

Not sure if this answers your question, but an interesting subject

Martin

[Bombphoon]

Originally Posted by MW Giles

There was a lot of use of delayed action bombs and some were fitted with tamper resistant fuses. I cannot remember which one but there was one fuse that the armourers hated having to deal with if a bomber returned with bombs on board

Some of the 4lb incendiaries also had a small explosive charge added, again to deter firefighting.

Not sure if this answers your question, but an interesting subject

Martin

Thanks Martin.

[Black6]

I have always intended to review Lanc bomb loads June-Aug 1944 targets in the Caen area to see if these types were utilised against the likes of the 12th SS Hitler Youth Division and the German Para's who proved difficult to dislodge.