late war Italian front victories

[NickM]

Gang,

I am currently separated from my copy of Shores' most recent volume of the Med Air War. I DO recall that late in the war, due to the decline of the fighter force from Germany and the ANR (transferred out; lack of fuel, etc), sometimes the Allied light/medium bomber force would fly without escorts, and every so often, the ANR would come up in force and give the Allies a bloody nose.

SO...., since I won't be able to get my hands on my volume for the foreseeable future, can anybody provide me with the dates, units involved and losses suffered for these unfortunate units?

Thank you ahead of time.

[Nick Beale]

That’s a lot of operations and losses to cover—you’re almost asking for someone to write you a book (I know, I’ve done it). The essentials:

Residual presence of Stab and II./JG 77 until early September 1944.

All Italian units were grounded by the Germans from 25 August through into October.

All Italian units forcibly grounded on 25 August 1944 by the Germans.

2° Gruppo Caccia activated toward the end of October (three Squadriglie of Bf 109s).

1° Gruppo Caccia returned from training in Germany in January 1945 (three Squadriglie of Bf 109s).

3° Gruppo Caccia was training in Holzkirchen on the Bf 109 and the personnel returned to Italy in the final weeks but the unit never became operational.

Operations by the Italian fighters were sporadic thanks to the very low amounts of fuel allocated to Italy (the bulk of stocks had been withdrawn to Germany in October 1944) and to bad weather.

Disastrous encounter with USAAF P-47s on 2 April. Last mission (IIRC) on 19 April.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

That’s a lot of operations and losses to cover—you’re almost asking for someone to write you a book (I know, I’ve done it). The essentials:

Residual presence of Stab and II./JG 77 until early September 1944.

All Italian units were grounded by the Germans from 25 August through into October.

All Italian units forcibly grounded on 25 August 1944 by the Germans.

2° Gruppo Caccia activated toward the end of October (three Squadriglie of Bf 109s).

1° Gruppo Caccia returned from training in Germany in January 1945 (three Squadriglie of Bf 109s).

3° Gruppo Caccia was training in Holzkirchen on the Bf 109 and the personnel returned to Italy in the final weeks but the unit never became operational.

Operations by the Italian fighters were sporadic thanks to the very low amounts of fuel allocated to Italy (the bulk of stocks had been withdrawn to Germany in October 1944) and to bad weather.

Disastrous encounter with USAAF P-47s on 2 April. Last mission (IIRC) on 19 April.

Hi, Nick!
A book, has in fact been written, but it's at my folks place in Corfu until at least next summer, so I can't get my hands on it. Given that you have narrowed things down substantially, I simply need to know if the Allies' force of light/medium twin engine bombers ran into trouble with the ANR while flying unescorted missions over Northern Italy, from October 44 to April 45. What little I recall is that air to air engagements were rather 'sparse' from late 44 onwards (at least in Italy ), due to, like you said, low fuel stocks, bad weather and interference from the Germans, so there can't be too many combats that took place.
Hoping you can still help me.


Thanks, ahead of time.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by NickM

Hi, Nick!
A book, has in fact been written

I know, I am co-author of "Air War Italy 1944–45: The Axis Air Forces from the Liberation of Rome to the Surrender" (Airlife, 1996)

Originally Posted by NickM

I simply need to know if the Allies' force of light/medium twin engine bombers ran into trouble with the ANR while flying unescorted missions over Northern Italy, from October 44 to April 45.

There's nothing particularly simple about summarising 7 months' worth of operations: in our book the relevant chapters totalled 58,000 words. A word search of the text for "escort" suggests that 310th BG's B-25s were unescorted on 12 February 1945 but the ANR did not come out of that encounter at all well.

[NickM]

Well then, I'm stymied.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by NickM

Well then, I'm stymied.

Not entirely if you download three files from the Bundesarchiv:

RL 2-II/390. Morgen-, Abendmeldungen, Nachträge, Nachträge zu Schadensmeldungen (Lw. FüSt. Ic Meldewesen). Bd 6: West, Feb. 1945.

RL 2-II/842. Morgen-, Abendmeldungen, Nachträge, Nachträge zu Schadensmeldungen (Lw. FüSt. Ic Meldewesen). Bd 7: West, Mar. 1945.

RL 2-II/391. Morgen-, Abendmeldungen, Nachträge, Nachträge zu Schadensmeldungen (Lw. FüSt. Ic Meldewesen). Bd 8: West, 1–11 Apr. 1945.

The daily reports (which we didn't have when the book was written) include a section from Italy. Where there was action they will tell you how many Bf 109s were sent up and an estimate of the number of (say) B-25s and escorts involved. I've looked at these but haven't made any attempt to transcribe or tabulate the information.