March 31, 1945 416 Squadron "blue on blue"

[keith A]

Can anyone tell me the name of the USAAF P-51 pilot (a Major) court-martialled for shooting down two Spitfires on this date?

regards

Keith

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Keith,

You may know that those were two Spitfires XVI from 416 Squadron, both shot down neear RHEINE airfield, around 11:30hs (serial numbers SM386 and SM232).

What happened to the Major?

Adriano B.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Dear Keith,

I understand this is a very delicate situation, but History belongs to all of us....and if a misidentification was made, in combat (we can not judge them...it ocurred on both sides, inside Luftwaffe, amongst RAF airmen, etc..), well...I just found the guy's name.

It was Major William M. LONG (352nd Fighter Squadron)

You can find here: http://www.afhra.af.mil/Portals/16/d...090601-121.pdf

Most humbly yours and I do appologize to any member of his Family if this subject can be of disturbance...but History is History and am not blaming, just helping a Historian to find the truth.

Adriano B.

[Brian]

Hi Keith and Adriano

Major Long was a former B-24 pilot; he had finished his tour but wanted to fly fighters. The incident happened on his first fighter op.

Both Canadian pilots survived but one was wounded.

Keith: can you verify that he was court-martialed?

Cheers
Brian

[keith A]

Hi I read about it in Ralph Waynes "Aces, warriors and wingmen" (p.237). Bill Roddie seems to state the court martial was going ahead but he did not comment further.

"Blue on Blue" incidents seem to have become more prevalent when a target-rich environment excites pilots to shoot quickly to avoid being shot down. I know Typhoon pilots suffered heavy losses due to poor identification by USAAF and RAF pilots.

regards

Keith

[Delmenhorst]

Check

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/m...-31march45.jpg

[keith A]

Odd that the air force list of victories still showed the victory. I wonder if, given the war was almost over, he was found innocent of the charge and awarded the victory?

It is revealing that in the light of several instances of USAAF pilots shooting down allied aircraft that the RCAF pilots were cleared to shoot back. I have read RAF there was a similar response by RAF pilots early in 1945 after a flurry of such incidents.

best regards

Keith

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Just wondering how the Major Long was identified as the guy who shot down two Spitfires that day. His combat reports only claims one Bf 109 shot down during landing approach, the German Flak opening fire only after his attack. That is coherent with the identification of this aircraft as a German one, and a Spitfire would not have behaved like that. So either he claimed this Bf 109 and shot down the Spitfires the same day in an unrelated action (for which he was not awarded a victory), or somebody else shot down the Canadian pilots.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Laurent, good morning.

I assumed that Keith had already something (piece of information), since he mentioned that the pilot who claimed erroneously the Spitfires XVI was of MAJOR rank. Cross-checking the USAAF claims in ETO for that day I found only ONE claim attributed to a pilot with the rank of Major, which was Major Long from 352nd FS, 353rd FG.

Perhaps he can inform where he got the information that:
a) It was a pilot with the rank of Major
b) The guy was Court Martialled for that

Perhaps this will answer our doubts. Do you happen to have Major Long COMBAT REPORT for that day? Perhaps Keith would be interested on that...Anyway, a very interesting piece of History...Thankfully both Canadians survived....it was not the case of several Mosquito airmen from 25th BG or 140 Squadron shot down erroneously by friendly-fire....

Most sincere and humbly yours,

Adriano

[Brian]

According to my notes, 352FS’s I.O. Lt Charles F. Wurtzler recalled:

“He (Long) had finished his bomber tour and wanted to fly fighters. So he went up on his first mission and – Bailey was leading the Group that day. That’s when Long shot down the Spitfire. He said ‘I do not want my gun camera film – and don’t interrogate anyone about this mission.’

Fellow 352FS pilot Lt Michael J. Martorella: “He (Long) was a major. He shot down SOME Spits one day (Martorella had seen the gun camera film). You could see the Spits.”

Cheers
Brian