Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22nd January 2017, 02:42
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,527
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Captured P-51B T9+PK

Recently, there was a new photo of P-51B/C T9+PK in Luftwaffe colors, which was crash landed at the end of the war, according to statements by Herr Rosarius.
I've always wanted to identify the parent unit from which this Mustang originated. While looking at the tail, it is just possible to discern the numbers "46". Can perhaps someone with better eyesight discern more of the serial number.

Last edited by kaki3152; 18th June 2017 at 00:41.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22nd January 2017, 14:23
Marcel Hogenhuis's Avatar
Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venlo - the Netherlands
Posts: 715
Marcel Hogenhuis
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

I am terribly sorry to admit that I don't see any signs which look like '46', the quality of these scans is to poor and enlarging the shown pictures results in pixels rather than readable numbers...

Have you looked in H.Stapfer's book 'Strangers in a strange land'
Good luck,

Marcel Hogenhuis, Venlo
__________________
airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd January 2017, 16:30
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,527
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

I have that book but it doesn't add any more information. I realize the quality of the photo is poor but I'm fairly sure I can see the numbers. Oh well, it was a long shot
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd January 2017, 18:45
Von Alles Von Alles is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 257
Von Alles
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

As it was not repainted , this plane could have its USAAF service datas left under the windscreen.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P51-2201.jpg (121.3 KB, 65 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22nd January 2017, 19:05
Andy Mitchell's Avatar
Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Biggin Hill, UK
Posts: 448
Andy Mitchell is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

"On Special Missions" - Smith, Creek and Petrick (Classic) has two photos of this aircraft on page 117.
Unfortunately, the photo quality is as good as these posted here - so nothing new to add on that front.

Caption indicates that the aircraft was found by US troops at Goslar.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22nd January 2017, 19:40
Steve Coates Steve Coates is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dorset England
Posts: 279
Steve Coates is on a distinguished road
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

TI Report A-373 gives the serial number as 43-12452.

Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22nd January 2017, 20:49
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,527
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

That's great news! According to number of web sites, 43-12452 was apart of the 355FG, 357FS and was lost on March 29,1944 while being flown by Captain Ben Johnston. The story is: "Johnston's engine blew during the scrap and he crash landed on a German field about 5 minutes after the fight.' This is from Angels, Bulldogs and Dragons: the HIstory of the 355th Fighter GRoup" by Bill Marshall.

Question; What is TI Report A-373?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22nd January 2017, 21:42
Steve Coates Steve Coates is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dorset England
Posts: 279
Steve Coates is on a distinguished road
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

TI A-Reports are a series of reports produced by the US Air Technical Intelligence Section reporting on individual shot down aircraft, airfields and various installations inspected. They start just after the D-Day landings and go through until after the end of the war. As best as I've been able to determine no complete collection exists but quite a number can be found if you look hard enough. Mostly these are listings. Only very occasionally are photos attached.

They are incredibly useful but not quite the goldmine some would wish as towards the end of the war and in its immediate aftermath, there was no longer the need to record markings, Werk Nummern in the same detail as there had been a few months previously and you might often see a listing as 10 x Fw 190. Obviously this one was of interest being a recaptured machine so you've been a little lucky.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22nd January 2017, 21:58
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,527
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

Thanks Steve, now I can establish the identity of three of the Zirkus Rosarius P-51B/C
T9+HK 42-24825 4 FG
T9+CK 42-103458 325 FG
T9+PK 43-12452 355FG
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22nd January 2017, 22:39
Snautzer's Avatar
Snautzer Snautzer is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,780
Snautzer is on a distinguished road
Re: Captured P-51B T9+PK

The following list was composed from old LEMB posts. (PatrickVg)

North American P-51 USA 42-10358
Crashlanded/crashed on 9Dec.1944 at Odenburg (is this 103458 or 103581?) was it still intact?

North American P-51 Tennessee's Partner USA 41 42-103455
318FS/325FG, Pilot Capt. George F. Campbell. Captured on 9Dec.1944. This was John Gaston's usual a/c.

North American P-51 My Lady/ Miss Marilyn USA A54 42-103458
318FS/325FG, Pilot Capt Thomas H. Todd. This was Henry Long's usual a/c. 9Dec.1944

North American P-51 Marry Norris USA 61 42-103581
318FS/325FG, Pilot Lt. P.Sangermano. Captured on 9Dec.1944 at Odenburg, intact?

North American P-51 Marije USA 51 42-103911
318FS/325FG, Pilot Lt. Brownwell captured on 9Dec.1944.

North American P-51B USA CS-W 43-12147
370FS/359FG, Pilot was Lt.Robert W. Siltaamaki. The a/c was reported to have been in "as new" condition when it was captured on 21Jul.1944. (18Jul.1944 at Leeder? Source: Mike Murphy)

North American P-51B "Jerry" USA QP-G 43-24825 8+7, T9+HK
334FS/4FG. Took off from Debden AirfieldpPiloted by 2ndLt. Thomas E. Fraser. It was shotdown and crashlaned on the 6Jun.1944 at Cambrai. It was used at E-stelle Rechlin on 7Jul.1944. It was seen at Neuroppin to train Hungarian pilots to use FW-190's being assigned to Beute-Zirkus Rosarious near Oranienburg, Germany in October 1944. On 12Dec.1944, it was lost during a Beute-Zirkus Rosarious tourney at Botzow near Velten, Germany. The pilot, Oblt. Leo Potjans of 1./JG77, was killed in the accident. Eventualy it was Salvaged on 21Sep.1945 the date that covered all outstanding a/c in the ETO.

North American P-51B-5 "Pate Pet" USA WD-L 43-6583
Force landed on 17Sep.1944 near Bodin airfield. 2nd Lt. Ethan L. Smith, Jr was seen running away, but later died in a German hospital.

North American P-51D USA 44-13412 Crashlanding/crashed on 6Feb.1945 it had 35% damage.
North American P-51D USA 44-13905 Crashlanding/crashed on 20Feb.1945 at Barmersdorf.

North American P-51D USA CL-U 44-14167 or 14168
338FS/55FG, 1stLt. R.I. Barrett landed his a/c on 26Nov.1944 at Soesterberg Airfield (Netherlands). It was damaged only 10-15%.

North American P-51D USA QP-K 44-14271 Crashlanding/crashed at Wiesbaden, it was seen at Dresden-Klotzsche.

North American P-51D (F-6D) USA 5M-F 44-14272 Brought down on 25Apr.1945. The a/c was piloted by 1/Lt Narborne A. Thomase.

North American P-51D USA 44-63162 Crashlanding/crashed on 20Jan.1945 at Bad Eilsen. Was it salvaged and repaired?

North American P-51B USA T9+CK
Used by Versuchsverband / Ob.d.L. (later Versuchsverband OKL ?) It was originally captured in the overall olive drab color scheme and marked in Luftwaffe markings as shown; however, later the Germans removed the olive drab color and the aircraft was operated with silver top sides with a yellow underside and the same T9+CK code.

North American P-51 6Z-E Crashlanding/crashed on 3Feb.1945 at Kirchdaun. Was it salvaged and repaired?

North American P-51B USA QP-D
On the 5Mar.1944, because of fuel shortage, 1/Lt. Spiros Pisanos of the 334FS/4FG, landed his a/c near Bernay. The pilot could escape. His aircraft was only 5% damaged and could have been repaired by the Germans.

North American P-51 Mustang I England ??-B AM180
239SQN reported missing on a reconnaissance flight toYpres on 22Jul.43 it was captured in not airworthy condition and sent to Beutepark 5.

North American P-51D 413616 Crashlanding/crashed on 11Sep.1944 at Oberhaching with 20% damage.
North American P-51 92791? Crashlanding/crashed on 5Dec.1944 at Scharfenberg. It was used for parts.
North American P-51D 415174 Crashlanding/crashed on 9Dec.1944 at Odenburg with 35% damage.
North American P-51 41442 Crashlanding/crashed on 6Oct.1944 at Reureld with 10% damage.
North American P-51D 414358 Crashlanding/crashed on 3Jan.1945 at Laupheim. It went to a junkyard.
North American P-51D 415527 Crashlanding/crashed on 14Jan.1945 at Goost Gutberg. It went to a junkyard.
North American P-51D 411363 Crashlanding/crashed on 3Feb.1945 at Zerbst.
North American P-51D 463189 Crashlanding/crashed on 10Mar.1945 at Buhlendorf.
North American P-51D 415266 357th FG, crashlanding/crashed on 2Mar.1945 at Schora.
North American P-51K 411739 479th FG, crashlanding/crashed on 22Feb.1945 at Cilly.
North American P-51K 411696 359th FG, crashlanding/crashed on 3Mar.1945.
North American P-51B T9+PK It was used by Cirkus Rosarius and it was found at Goslar by American troops at the end of the war.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Japanese aircrew bailouts, prisoners? Johnny .45 Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East 22 3rd May 2013 01:51
First Spitfire Captured by the Luftwaffe kaki3152 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 5 20th September 2012 18:56
German planes captured by the allies (films and stills) Rémi Baudru Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 1st February 2012 17:35
Links to Germans using captured Allied Planes PA.Dutchman Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 2nd May 2008 22:50
German treatment of captured Soviet Flying Personnel kaki3152 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 6th January 2006 17:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net