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  #1  
Old 6th October 2017, 20:26
landser88 landser88 is offline
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Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Hello to all,

borrow a photoalbum from a member of Flak-Regiment, he served from 1942 on the island Alderney.
Thre is a photo of a Spitfire (Mk. V?) on ground.
Codes are PJ ο N

Does anybody know more information?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg spitfire Alderney.jpg (167.7 KB, 83 views)
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  #2  
Old 6th October 2017, 22:16
Andy Fletcher's Avatar
Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Hi Landser,

PJ was the unit code for 130 Sqn for much of the war (1941-44). The unit was based in Cornwall for most of this period which would fit with a loss over the Channel Islands.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher
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Last edited by Andy Fletcher; 6th October 2017 at 22:16. Reason: Typo
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  #3  
Old 6th October 2017, 23:23
Kaiyan Kaiyan is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Same aircraft I believe but I have it as 59 sqd. need to check..
Mk.IIa PJ-N P7904
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mk.IIa PJ-N P7904 0.jpg (22.7 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg Mk.IIa PJ-N P7904 1.jpg (23.0 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg Mk.IIa PJ-N P7904 2.jpg (18.3 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg Mk.IIa PJ-N P7904 3.jpg (57.0 KB, 46 views)
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  #4  
Old 6th October 2017, 23:37
Kaiyan Kaiyan is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Just checked code were used by both 59 and 130 so must down to dates...
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  #5  
Old 7th October 2017, 03:13
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

59 Sqn. was never equipped with Spitfires. It used Hudsons and then Liberators and Fortresses.

P7904 was indeed with 130 Sqn. Shot down on 21 Aug. 41. Its pilot P/O Henry Webster Pickstone (67064) became a POW.

Tom
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:03
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Kaiyan

PJ was the code used by 59 Sq pre-war. When the war broke out RAF changed basically all unit codes. 59 Sq was then issued the code digits TR. That code was used to late 1942/early 1943 when they were issued with WE which I believe was used for the rest of the wartime period

Cheers
Stig
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Old 11th October 2017, 22:27
Allan125 Allan125 is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Semenza View Post
59 Sqn. was never equipped with Spitfires. It used Hudsons and then Liberators and Fortresses.

P7904 was indeed with 130 Sqn. Shot down on 21 Aug. 41. Its pilot P/O Henry Webster Pickstone (67064) became a POW.

Tom
However Tom, this is not P7904 as that crashed at sea, which this plainly didn't:

On 21st August 1941 6 Blenheims of 107 and 6 of 114 Squadron were sent out to bomb the Hoogovens (iron foundry) north of Ijmuiden, The Netherlands. The Blenheims were escorted by 10 Spitfires of 66 Squadron, 8 of 130 (Punjab) Squadron and 8 of 152 Squadron.

The first wave (107 Sqdn) took off at 07.00 hrs from Great Massingham, Norfolk and attacked the target at 09.18 hrs local time. The bombs were dropped from 50 ft and were reported to hit the rolled steel plant at the north side of the target, as well as the cooling tower. Other bombs fell near one of the blast furnaces.

The second wave (114 Sqdn) took off at 07.10 hrs from West Raynham, Norfolk and attacked the target 2 minutes later at 09.20 hrs local time. The bombs were dropped from 50 ft and fell between a row of chimneys in the middle of the complex which caused a lot of smoke.

After the attack the Blenheims attacked barracks in the dunes south of the harbour entrance. Hoogovens reported 23 bombs and several incendiaries on the complex from which a number failed to explode. The Central Engineering shed received a direct hit which damaged several machines. At the saltpetre works the ammonia gasometer and a steel tower were damaged. Also an office and a ship in the harbour were damaged and there were several casualties amongst the civilian labourers. Several German soldiers were killed too, amongst whom an important architect whose body was brought back to Germany. During the attack at the barracks several Germans from the cavalry were killed. The Blenheims of P/O Robinson and Sgt Anderson from 107 Squadron were damaged, and the Blenheims of the second wave reported many Bf.109’s.

The escorting Spitfires joined the formation at 07.20 hrs local time. The 8 Spitfires of 130 Squadron were bounced on the way back by a couple of Messerschmitt’s. 20 year old P/O William Roy Bloyce 67053 RAF VR in P8370 was shot down into the North Sea at 09.25 hrs local time at 30 ft altitude by Gefr. Schumacher, 1.E./JG3, 15-20 kilometres West of Ijmuiden. It was his first victory. The Spitfire was a so called presentation aircraft and was nicknamed ‘Oldham’. The radio letter is not known. The body of P/O Bloyce has no known grave and his name is engraved in panel 21 of the Runnymede memorial.

"The Spitfire of P/O Henry Webster Pickstone was hit by Flak at 09.20 hrs local time. His Spitfire crashed into the North Sea, South of the harbour entrance. He managed to bail out and was slightly wounded picked up by the rescue boat (Flugsicherungsboot) FB-308, which had sailed off at 09.50 hrs local time. P/O Pickstone was brought to the harbour doctor and after having been treated for his wounds picked up at 13.50 hrs by the Luftgau Holland (German regional command) and brought to airfield Bergen, home base of the unit 1.E./JG3. P/O Pickstone was initially held in a hospital in Amsterdam, then eventually sent to Stalag Luft III, via Dulag Luft at Frankfurt, Oflag XC in Lubeck and Oflag XXIB at Schubin. In a 1992 letter to a friend he advises that whilst at Stalag Luft III, as a pre-war architectural student, he had the job of designing a stone memorial with a wooden cross, and a wooden fence around the whole thing. It is very likely that the ashes from the fifty who were shot in “The Great Escape” were put in the same area. Not only did he design the thing, but got to help make it, and then went out on parole to install it.

Raid information kindly supplied by Hans Nauta, and personal information and photo (of Henry Webster Pickstone) kindly supplied by David Pickstone, and of course Ijmuiden is not anywhere near to Alderney!

And for Kaiyan - I would respectfully suggest you change the titles of your photos - which I also have copies of, although this one is new to me. Unfortunately I do not go back that far with the 130 (Punjab) Squadron ORB to see if the Form 541 contains any details

Allan
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Last edited by Allan125; 11th October 2017 at 23:10. Reason: additional piece for Kaiyan
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Old 12th October 2017, 16:50
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Allan

Out of interest what kind of mission was this?
Checking my own sources (second hand of course) I have Norman Franks saying 130 Sq was on a Circus when the two pilots were lost, but in his book about Circus missions on the 21st he make no mention of any 130 Sq escort.

Foreman states 130 Sq was on a Roadstead which makes absolutely no sense with the details you provide.

I can think of a Ramrod mission which I believe closely resembled the Circus jobs. Any idea? Can you or anyone else also say what was the difference between a Ramrod and a Circus mission?

Cheers
Stig
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  #9  
Old 19th October 2017, 17:47
Allan125 Allan125 is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Allan

Out of interest what kind of mission was this?
Checking my own sources (second hand of course) I have Norman Franks saying 130 Sq was on a Circus when the two pilots were lost, but in his book about Circus missions on the 21st he make no mention of any 130 Sq escort.

Foreman states 130 Sq was on a Roadstead which makes absolutely no sense with the details you provide.

I can think of a Ramrod mission which I believe closely resembled the Circus jobs. Any idea? Can you or anyone else also say what was the difference between a Ramrod and a Circus mission?

Cheers
Stig
Hello Stig

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - as per my piece, the raid information was courtesy of Hans Nauta, and the information on Pickstone comes from his son. I also have to agree with Chris Goss "There are countless errors in the Losses book so this does not surprise me"

cheers

Allan
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  #10  
Old 12th October 2017, 18:27
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Spitfire shot down in Alderney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan125 View Post
However Tom, this is not P7904 as that crashed at sea, which this plainly didn't.
Thanks for the clarification, Allan. The fate of P7904 and how Pickstone got out of it alive was not clear in Frank's Fighter Command Losses: "Circus 82. Shot down by flak, 0725. Stalag Luft III."

I certainly would be curious to know the serial on the PJ-N in the photo.

Tom
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