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Old 14th January 2011, 05:22
BartC17 BartC17 is offline
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B-17 loss to night fighter

I'm hoping that someone can help here. I had the pleasure of meeting a B-17 pilot last week. He was a Pathfinder flying a B-17G with PFF. On the morning of 22 Mar 44 they were enroute to another UK base to lead that Group for the days mission. On final approach, when the throttles were advanced and the turbo superchargers cut it producing flames from the exhaust, they were shot down by a German night fighter. They crash landed and the tail gunner was killed. They counted over 400 holes in the aircraft. I would be interested if any German night fighters filed a claim for this event. I have also heard that it may have happened on 22 May 44 but I'm sticking with the March date. I know what base they were landing at but the name escapes me at this time. Any help? Thank you.
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Old 14th January 2011, 08:28
Boomerang Boomerang is offline
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Re: B-17 loss to night fighter

Hello:

Checked Simon Parry's Intruders Over Britain and found a report of a B17 pathfinder of the 96th BG being ferried to Framlington on the night of 11/12 April 1944 which was shot down on approach by a KG 51 intruder. More precisely, the time of the shoot down is reported as 00:50 on 12 April.

Pilot reported as Lt Donald MacGregor and three KIA.

B17 claimed that night by Lt Wolfgang Wenning, II KG 51

No other reports of B17 pathfinders shot down by LW intruders in this book.

Hope this assists.

Cheers

Don W

Last edited by Boomerang; 14th January 2011 at 08:35. Reason: Correct typo
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Old 14th January 2011, 13:22
BartC17 BartC17 is offline
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Re: B-17 loss to night fighter

I am almost certain that the day is the 22nd of March. The B-17 pilot's name is Kneemeyer. One thing I considered is that the encounter could have been listed as a possible. Also the fact that it was at night, the B-17 could have been mistaken for another type of heavy bomber. I thought that the fact that the encounter happened over an English airfield may have narrowed down the possibilities.
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Old 14th January 2011, 14:23
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: B-17 loss to night fighter

Here is the list of the II./KG 51 claims in this period:

31/03/1944 Major Wolf-Dietrich Meister Stab II. KG 51 Fortress II E. Cambridge: 300m 04.33 2 - yes C.2025/I VNE: ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 162
11/04/1944 Ltn. Wolfgang Wenning Stab II. KG 51 Fortress II N. Ipswich: 300m 00.42 1 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.1 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 166
11/04/1944 Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken 5. KG 51 Spitfire 1352/05 Ost: 800m [England] 00.50 1 - yes C.2027/I VNE:ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 166
11/04/1944 Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken 5. KG 51 Halifax 1482/05 Ost: tiefflug [England] 01.25 2 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr. - LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 166
19/04/1944 Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken 5. KG 51 Lancaster 033/005 Ost: über England 02.25 3 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.2 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 167
19/04/1944 Oblt. Claus Breissner 5. KG 51 Lancaster Cambridge 02.25 1 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.3 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 167
19/04/1944 Ltn. Wolfgang Wenning Stab II. KG 51 Halifax NW Hull [England] 03.47 2 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.2 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 167
21/04/1944 Fw. Gustav Delp [Bs] 6. KG 51 P-47 N. Cambridge 05.10 1 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.1 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 167
22/04/1944 Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken 5. KG 51 Halifax England - 4 - yes LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken 5. KG 51 Halifax England - 5 - yes LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Fortress II 1884/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.04 2 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.2 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Ltn. Wolfgang Wenning Stab II. KG 51 Halifax 1368/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.05 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.3 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 Halifax II 1384/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.10 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.4 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Halifax 1384/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.10 3 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.4 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Hptm. Werner Duro 4. KG 51 Unident. 1377/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.14 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.1 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Fw. Gustav Delp [Bs] 6. KG 51 Halifax S. Norwich: [England] 22.15 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.5 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Halifax 1385/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.16 1 - yes C.2027/I VNE:ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 Halifax II 1376: [England] 22.22 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.6 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Ltn. Uwe Laas 5. KG 51 Halifax 1371/ 05 Ost E: [England] 22.26 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.4 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
22/04/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 Halifax II W. Orfordness: [England] 22.46 - - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.7 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
23/04/1944 Uffz. Bongert 4. KG 51 Halifax 1338/05 Ost: [England] 03.35 1 - yes C.2027/I VNE:ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168
25/04/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 Halifax 1357 / 05 Ost: [England] 03.58 4 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.8 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 170
25/04/1944 Ltn. Wolfgang Wenning Stab II. KG 51 Halifax 20km NE Cambridge: 1000m 04.22 4 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.87 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 170
27/04/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Unident. 0356/05 Ost: [England] 04.25 4 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.9 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 171
28/04/1944 Uffz. Döhlenz 5. KG 51 Unident. 15 Ost N/ 242 [North Sea] 04.15 1 - yes C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.5 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 172
12/05/1944 Uffz. Walter Breugel 4. KG 51 4-mot. Flzg. Bredstedt: 100m 02.38 1 - noch C.2027/I Anerk: Nr.2 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 176
22/05/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 B-24 05 Ost S/0365: 600m 02.51 5 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.11 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 178
22/05/1944 Uffz. Baier 6. KG 51 B-24 05 Ost S/0367: 50m 02.56 6 - yes C.2027/II VNE:ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 178
22/05/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Lancaster 05 Ost S/0489: 1200m 03.05 5 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.12 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 178
22/05/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Lancaster 05 Ost S/0317: 800m 03.14 6 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.13 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 178
22/05/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Lancaster ZZ/E Ost 0324: 800 m 03.22 7 - yes C.2027/II VNE:ASM LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 178
29/05/1944 Besätzung 6. KG 51 Stirling 05 Ost S/EC 2: 300m [Norfolk] 02.40 - - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.10 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 181
13/06/1944 Uffz. Ottren 6. KG 51 Abschuß 4381zz: 200m [Intruder to Britain] 01.25 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.14 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 187
13/06/1944 Fw. Visintin 5. KG 51 Halifax 05 Ost/0378: 200m [England] 03.12 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.6 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 188
17/06/1944 Uffz. Ottren 6. KG 51 4-mot. Flzg. 2225/05 Ost: 4500m [England] 02.00 2 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.15 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 189
17/06/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 4-mot. Flzg. 121/05 Ost:[England] 02.15 8 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.16 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 190
28/06/1944 Ltn. Markan 4. KG 51 4-mot. Flzg. 05 Ost S/0376: 350m 02.27 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.3 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 194
28/06/1944 Ltn. Friedrich 5. KG 51 Stirling 15 West S/1223: 300m 02.30 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.7 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 194
28/06/1944 Uffz. Walther 4. KG 51 Lancaster 05 Ost S/0378: 400m 02.31 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.4 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 194
03/07/1944 Fw. Johann Trenke 6. KG 51 Abschuß 05 Ost S/007: 500m [~ England] 00.14 9 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.18 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 195
06/07/1944 Uffz. Illner 6. KG 51 2-mot. Flgz. 15 West S/UU: 1500m [Caen] 02.38 1 - yes C.2027/II Anerk: Nr.17 LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 198

As far as I know, it was the only unit flying Intruder missions over England in 1944.

Another possibility will be a German bomber crew taking an opportunity shot on an enemy aircraft.
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