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  #1  
Old 20th January 2007, 04:36
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 279 (?), 669 were credited with a combat sortie (Could someone provide a compreshensive breakdown of losses –this is what I have:

-64 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 26 B-24s)
–apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters
–at least 9 were lost to Flak
–8 lost to ???

-355 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 30 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak)
? Category E Damage
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

-14 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)
? Category E Damage
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

78 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return

28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost
-Breakdown?

I quickly counted 128 Luftwaffe claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM syposium in 2002).
Though I’m fairly familiar with the major air battles with bombers –Ploesti, the two Schweinfurt battles, Berlin- I haven’t heard much about this raid. Why haven’t their been any in Depth Studies on this almost unknown but remarkeable action? Can anyone elaborate on this fight? What went so wrong for the Allies at this late stage in the war? What did the Jagdwaffe do right?

Thanks,

Rob Romero
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Old 20th January 2007, 08:25
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Revisions & Elaboration

A more careful count from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and some 61 or more 8th Air Force Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (better than 2 out of every 3 claims or 68.5% can apparently be verified) for what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 84 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not special consideration in assesing their claims.

84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (10 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 e. V. Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
89 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
115 Total Claims

75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak
(~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy)
US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft)

11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy)

7 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 6 P-38s Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-51 Actually Failed to Return -1 other pilot Claimed Unknown Type)
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)


52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

14 US Fighter Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47 from Rear)
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3:
29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98
89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged).
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  #3  
Old 20th January 2007, 09:26
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Rob Romero is an unknown quantity at this point
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A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and 61-69 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (68.5-77.5% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 89 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims.

84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
89 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
115 Total Claims

75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak
(~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy)

US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft)
11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy)

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type)
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)

52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24s Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM


14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type)
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear)
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3:
29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98
89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged)
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  #4  
Old 20th January 2007, 12:11
Boandlgramer Boandlgramer is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

This is what i found:

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 327: 679 bombers and 814
fighters are dispatched to bomb Berlin, concentrating on railway facilities;
they claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft; 63 bombers and 13 fighters are lost:
1. 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1
airman is KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA.
2. 218 B-17s are dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit the primary, 24 hit
Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are
lost and 161 damaged; 4 airmen are KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA.
3. 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair
and 121 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA.
Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47
is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot
is WIA and 12 MIA.
Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in
Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.
14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb
marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover
over the target area.
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  #5  
Old 20th January 2007, 12:37
sveahk sveahk is offline
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sveahk
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

According to "Making for Sweden..." by Widfeldt/Wegmann, one B-24H (41-28718, BO, MACR 4451) landed at Rinkaby in Sweden, after being attacked at 1104 hours in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. A B-17G (42-31241, Spirit of Wanett, MACR 4163) and a B-24H (41-29479, Gypsy Queen, MACR 4488 ) ended up in Denmark. Both probably hit by Flak.

Cheers

Hans
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  #6  
Old 20th January 2007, 17:56
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drgondog drgondog is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

I'm not sure I see a 51 lost in the list, that was lost at Rathenow. Capt Thomas Neal was in pursuit of 2 Fw190s diving through cloud cover. His wingman Fritts pulled up and was only 200 feet from the ground when he recovered.

Neal crashed nearby to an Fw190 which presumably was one he was chasing... Neal buried at Rathenow.

I have him as "lost in aerial combat' in my own records

Regards,

Bill
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Old 21st January 2007, 07:34
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Revisions & Elaborations

Mission 327: Target Berlin

BOMBERS 751 Assigned 679 Take Off 669 Combat Sorties 640 Bomb Targets
FIGHTERS 814 Combat Sorties
1493 Total

Combat Sorties
669 BOMBERS (446 B-17s & 233 B-24s)
814 FIGHTERS (117 P-38s, 463 P-47s, 234 P-51s)
1493 TOTAL (P-47s & P-51s from 8th & 9th Air Forces)
1st ? Division 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin;
2nd ? Division 218 B-17s to Berlin; 158 Hit Primary, 24 Hit Magdeburg, 10 Hit Brandenburg &
4 hit targets of opportunity;
3rd ? Division 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin;

Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in
Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.


14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb
marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover
over the target area.

Lost Beyond Repair Damaged
10 B-17s 150 B-17s
28 B-17s 161 B-17s
38 B-17s 311 B-17s
25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s
63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers

Bomber Casualties
1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA
4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA
13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA
18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA

Fighter Casualties
1 WIA 12 MIA
Total Casualties
18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA



Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s
234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s
117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s
814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged




1st ? Division -210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin;
10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged;
1 KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA.


2nd ? Division -218 B-17s dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit Primary, 24 hit Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity;
28 B-17s are lost and 161 damaged;
4 KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA.


3rd ? Division -212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin;
25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 121 damaged;
13 KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA.


Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s;
3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair;
7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged;
1 WIA and 12 MIA.




On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 327, 669 were credited with a combat sortie.
814 Fighters (Fighters or Gunners/Fighters claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft)

-63 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 25 B-24s)
–apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters
–at least 9 were lost to Flak
–7 lost to ???

-432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak)
2 Category E Damage B-24s
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

-13 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s)


-31 Fighters Damaged
1 Category E Damage P-47
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

77 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return

21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost
-Breakdown?

I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002).
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example suggests -to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims.

83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
88 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
114 Total Claims

75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak
(~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy)

US FIGHTERS LOST
11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy)

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)

52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM


14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear)
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters)


Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391
B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260
B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261
B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467
B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468
B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470
B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469
B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476
B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak
B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240
B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242
B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456
B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459
B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457
B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460
B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453
B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454
B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458
B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243
B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244
B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245
B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345
B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344
B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346
B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247
B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250
B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251
B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255
B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254
B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250
B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252
B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246
B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248
B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253
B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450
B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464
B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472
B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494
B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473
B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445
B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487
B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471
B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444
B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446
B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462
B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485
B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486
B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489
B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491
B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487
B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490
B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak
B-24 42-64354 449 4249
B-24 41-29582 450 4614
B-24 41-29376 450 4837
B-24 41-29269 450 4855
B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493
B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940
B-24 41-29265 454 4629
B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190.
B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448
B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447
B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943
B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944
B-24 41-28730 467 4942
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541
P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671
P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422
P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420
P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434
P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547
P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435
P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431
P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432
P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406
P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407
P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408
P-38 42-66985 51 4510
P-38 42-67007 51 4799
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-47 42-22687 58 5808
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
F-5 42-13124 5

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  #8  
Old 21st January 2007, 10:34
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Rob,

Great work, but your sum on claims is IMHO incorrect.

It stands to reason that adding HSS claims to the total leads to instant overclaim, since no kill was claimed in the first place - Viermot was forced to leave the formation, not downed.

The HSS, isn't a claim for a kill, so it should not be added to the total claims.

Leaves you with 84 + 5 = 89 total victory claims
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Old 21st January 2007, 11:45
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Ruy,

When I first saw you had become involved in this discussion, you got me nervous, as I thought you were banishing me for life for excessively long posts! ;-)

I think you misunderstood my intent in distinguishing and including HSS claims. A problem I am cautioning researchers to consider is that the Germans defined Victories, differently than in the West. The first (revised) Total of (88) is what we in the west would understand as Kills. However, the Luftwaffe deemed that any pilot who had the courage to knock a Viermot out of a Pulk, was worthy of being bestoyed a Luftsiege. Thus the Jagdwaffe claimed 88 ‘Kills’ but 114 ‘Victories’. Like you my point is that one should ignore HSS, in assessing the reliability of German claims. Thus when I calculated Jagdwaffe claim accuracy, I divided estimated 8th AF losses to Luftwaff Fighters (61-69) by 88 to achieve a reasonable 69.32%-78.41% Claim Veracity.

83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
88 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
114 Total Claims

Thanks for TOCH!

Rob
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Old 21st January 2007, 22:22
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Revisions

Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin

Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets
Bombers 751 679 669 618
Fighters 814
TOTAL 1493

3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division
263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin
10 B-17s are lost & 150 damaged
1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA.

1st Division (B-17)
236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Bomb Target (158 Berlin, 24 Magdeburg,10 Brandenburg, 4 Opportunity Targets)
28 B-17s are lost & 161 damaged
4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA

2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area
252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin
25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair & 121 damaged
13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA


Fighter Escort
117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s
3 P-38s & 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair
7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s are damaged
1 WIA & 12 MIA

Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target
3rd Division (B-17) 263 228 210 –Leading Division
1st Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets)
B-17s 499 446 406
2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 –Trailing Division
TOTAL 751 679 618

Mission 327 Casualties
Bomber Casualties
1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division
4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (1st Division)
13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division
18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA
Fighter Casualties
1 WIA 12 MIA
Total Casualties
18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA

Mission 327 Losses
Lost Beyond Repair Damaged
10 B-17s 150 B-17s (3rd Division) –Leading Division
28 B-17s 161 B-17s (1st Division)
38 B-17s 311 B-17s
25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s (2nd Division) –Trailing Division
63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers

(P-47s & P-51s -8th/9th Air Forces)

Combat Sorties
Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
3rd Division 10 B-17s 150 B-17s 160 B-17s
1st Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s
446 B-17s 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 349 B-17s
233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers

63 Bombers Fail to Return
–Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters
–At least 9 Bombers were lost to Flak
–7 Bombers lost to ???

432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak)
2 Category E Damage (B-24s Lost BEFORE Landing)
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s
234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s
117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s
814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged

31 Fighters Damaged
1 Category E Damage P-47
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers
814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters
1493 Sorties 76 Lost 3 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 541 Lost /Damaged

USAAF Fighters/Gunners? Combat Claims
95 Shot Down
33 Probable
48 Damaged

21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost
-Breakdown?

Secondary/Diversionary Missions
Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.


14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area.

I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002).
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims.

83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
88 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
114 Total Claims

75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak
(~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy)

US FIGHTERS LOST
11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy)

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)

52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM


14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear)
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters)


Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391
B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260
B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261
B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467
B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468
B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470
B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469
B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476
B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak
B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240
B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242
B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456
B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459
B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457
B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460
B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453
B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454
B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458
B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243
B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244
B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245
B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345
B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344
B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346
B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247
B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250
B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251
B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255
B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254
B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250
B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252
B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246
B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248
B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253
B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450
B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464
B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472
B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494
B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473
B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445 Shot Down by German Fighters -Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’
B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters
B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471 Shot Down by Fighter
B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444 ‘Double Trouble’ -Shot Down by Fighters
B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446 Shot Down by Fighters
B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462
B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485
B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486
B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489
B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491
B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487
B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490
B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak
B-24 42-64354 449 4249
B-24 41-29582 450 4614
B-24 41-29376 450 4837
B-24 41-29269 450 4855
B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493
B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940
B-24 41-29265 454 4629
B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190.
B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448
B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447
B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943
B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944
B-24 41-28730 467 4942
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541
P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671
P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422
P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420
P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434
P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547
P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435
P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431
P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432
P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406
P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407
P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408
P-38 42-66985 51 4510
P-38 42-67007 51 4799
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
P-47 42-22687 58 5808
Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments
F-5 42-13124 5

THE KAMENITSA CREW, 576th Squadron
Plane #42-100371 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters

THE OFENSTEIN CREW, 576th Squadron
Plane #42-110062 -Shot Down by German Fighters –Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’

THE WYATT CREW, 579th Squadron
Plane #42-7510 ‘El Lobo’ -A Straggler Shot Down by Flak and Fighters

THE SHERE CREW, 577th Squadron
Plane #41-28759 -Shot Down by Fighter

THE BISHOP CREW, 578th Squadron
Plane #42-110105 -Shot Down by Fighters

THE ROGERS CREW, 578th Squadron
Plane #42-100100 ‘Double Trouble’ –Shot Down by Fighters


THE REED CREW, 577th Squadron
Plane #42-7546 ‘Alfred II, -Crippled By Fighters and Abandoned over England –No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage?

THE FRYMAN CREW, 579th Squadron
Plane #41-29427, Ready Willing and Able –Exploded before Landing due to Fighter? Damage–No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage?


THE COPP CREW, 577th Squadron
Plane #42-52642 ‘Short Round’ -Damaged by Fighters

THE SLIPP CREW, 577th Squadron
Plane #42-7495 ‘Axis Grinder’ -Damaged by Fighters

THE BRUNN CREW, 579th Squadron
Plane #41-29448 ‘Carol Ann’ -Sligthly Damaged by Fighters

THE GANN CREW, 579th Squadron
Plane #42-100261 ‘Sweet Chariot’ Slightly Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge –Aborted Mission

THE BELL CREW, 579TH Squadron
Plane #42-7472 ‘Bull Bat’ -Minor Damage

THE WITTEL CREW, 576th Squadron
Plane #41-29131 ‘Spirit of '46 Flying Patch’ -Slight Damage From Fighters?

THE JONES CREW, 576th Squadron
Plane #42-110097 -Damaged by Fighters



THE PRELL CREW, 576th Squadron
Plane #41-29433 -Undamaged

THE SABOURIN CREW, 578th Squadron
Plane #42-110028 -Undamaged?

THE BRIDSON CREW, 578th Squadron
Plane #852 and #42-52548 ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged?

Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports –one Lib was abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)!

Mission 327 and The 392nd BG (B-24)
http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm
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