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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Hello there Gentlemen,
one of the most difficult tasks in airwar enthusiasm is determining the I-16 top ace. Possible candidates are Shestakov, Muravitzkiy and Pilipenko. Lately, I concentrated on Vasilii Golubyev. The following two wonderful websites are quite helpful: http://www.cieldegloire.com/015_golubyev_v_f.php http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/golubev.htm Unfortunately, none of them features a full list of Golubyev's 39+12sh kills and the kills indicated match only loosely :-( I tried to merge the two lists and indeed a 51-kill list evolved: 1. 28.06.1941 Ju 88 2. 11.07.1941 Bf 109 3. 26.07.1941 Bf 109 4. 1/6 11.08.1941 Bf 109 5. 11.08.1941 Bf 110 6. 1/2 14./15.10.1941 Ju 88 7. 24.10.1941 I-153 8. 24.10.1941 I-153 9. 1/2 24.10.1941 Bulldog 10. 1/2 01./02.11.1941 Hurricane 11. 02.11.1941 Hurricane 12. 07.12.1941 Bf 110 13. 12.12.1941 Ju 88 14. Dez 41 He 111 15. 21.12.1941 Bf 109 16. 27.12.1941 Ju 87 17. 12.03.1942 Bf 109 18. 12.03.1942 Bf 109 19. 1/6 12.03.1942 Hs 126 20. 13.03.1942 Bf 110 21. 14.03.1942 Bf 109 22. 19.03.1942 Ju 88 23. 1/6 19.03.1942 He 111 24. 1/2 31.03.1942 Bf 109 25. 21.04.1942 Ju 88 26. 1/3 16.05.1942 Ju 88 27. 16.05.1942 Bf 109 28. 28.05.1942 He 111 29. 1/2 28.05.1942 He 111 30. 29.05.1942 Ju 87 31. 1/4 29./30.05.1942 Ju 87 32. 03.06.1942 Bf 109 33. 10.01.1943 Fw 190 34. 12.01.1943 Bf 109 35. 15.01.1943 Fw 190 36. 02.04.1943 Bf 109 37. 13./14.04.1943 Fw 190 38. 15.04.1943 G.50bis 39. 21.04.1943 G.50bis 40. 21.04.1943 G.50bis 41. 28.05.1943 Bf 109 42. 28./29.05.1943 Ju 88 43. 29.05.1943 Ju 88 44. 29.05.1943 Ju 88 45. 02.06.1943 Fw 190 46. 20.08.1943 Brewster 47. 20.08.1943 Brewster 48. 06./07.02.1944 Bf 110 49. 23./24.02.1944 Bf 110 50. 05.03.1944 Fw 190 51. 28.06.1944 Fw 190 However, it features only 10 of his 12 shared kills. Could anybody please help me to identify the other two shares ? Have a nice Tuesday, Michael Last edited by knusel; 19th July 2016 at 16:52. |
#2
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Hi,
i have: 12.03.42 Destroyed Me 109F I-16 4 Gu IAP-KBF WkNr 8347 Oberfeldwebel Robert Behr (4./JG 54) 12.03.42 Destroyed Me 109F I-16 4 Gu IAP-KBF WkNr 8997 del Unteroffizier Hans Schwarzkopf (1./JG 54). from: http://www.rkka.es/Otros_articulos/2...1_arcitulo.htm it's in Spanish language and i really don't know if the info is totally reliable.... regards
__________________
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle." Dietrich Hrabak "The wingman is absolutely indispensable. I look after the wingman. The wingman looks after me....." Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski,"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first." Adolf Galland |
#3
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Hello GMichalski,
you're right. The incident is described in the OSPREY volume by Maslov. It's also depicted on its cover. Strangely, this books indicates 19 I-16 kills for Golubyev, whereas Polak in STALIN'S FALCONS reports his Jun41-Jan43 kills to have been scored in the I-16. This would add up to 35 kills in my list, including at least 10 shared. Have a very nice Friday, Michael |
#4
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
hi, knusel, lemme try to answer it
those victory claims from the link (http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/golubev.htm) u quoted r actually from the book "Победы сталинских соколов"(Victories of Stalin's Falcons) by Mikhail Bykov, published in 2008. but little might u know that Bykov amended part of contents and a revised copy got published in 2014, which is called "Все асы Сталина" (All aces of Stalin). and in his new book, Vasiliy Golubyev's claims were 17+15. and another fact clarified from this book is the fighter type once he used: 6/41-2/42 was I-16 and 2/42-5/45 were I-16, La-5, La-7. and here's the complete list from that book uploaded to the attachement. hope it helped to u regards from shanghai |
#5
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Dear Stukapilot,
thanks for that helpful input. I didn't know that airaces.narod.ru bases on Bykov's work. I've studied the list you attached and found that the listed kills add up to 17+16sh, not 17+15sh as indicated. At home, I merged the victory dates of that list together with the dates given by Polak, Maslov and airaces.narod.ru. => The sum ist 48+18sh, which indicates that some dates might be wrong or not confirmed. I wish you a splendid weekend, Michael |
#6
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Knusel,
Previous posts on the forum have indicated that the Polak book is not particularly reliable and the Bykov volumes should be seen as replacing it. Nick |
#7
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Quote:
best regards |
#8
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Hello Stukapilot & Nick,
you're probably right. STALIN'S FALCONS is full of inaccuracies :-( However, it's still the best book on the German market with the largest amount of data. I really should consider acquiring Bykov's work abroad (+learn Russian). I also think about buying this one: https://www.amazon.de/dp/0764304763/...I37FHUZSPVQ74W Can you tell me if it's worth the money ? Have a nice Thursday, Michael |
#9
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Hi Michael, yes, I have that one in my collection. I wouldn't say it is the be all and end all of books on the subject but I do feel like I got my money's worth because it was helpful with potted histories of a lot of the units as well as biographies much like Stalin's Falcons. If it counts for anything, nobody I know of has discredited it yet.
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#10
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?
Quote:
all those books u mentioned r in my personal collection so my personal idea, that bykov's book is worth every penny of it. it's a reference book like 4 volumes of "luftwaffe aces" published by wingleader, name-birth/death-rank-units-type used-claims-date-location-type destroyed-comments. bylov spent more than 10 years to collect those trivial files and compile them into a thick coffe table book. it's not so expensive i think, i ordered one copy from Ozon and got it after 3 weeks, app.50 euros in total i remember. as stalin's eagles, i have to say the info from this book is smidgen dated, but in general it's a good book about soviet letchiki in patriotic war. as we all know, schiffer's books vary greatly and this book is 3.5-4 stars as my rating. btw, u could download its scanned PDF from internet for a brief reading before purchasing a copy. WARNING: delete it after reading. copyright |
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