Photograph of Willi Elstermann

[Theo Boiten]

Hi John,

Many thanks for these elaborate details about Elstermann's career and Abschüsse, most helpful indeed. I've deleted his September 42 claim -your info strengthens me in my belief that this victory claim was a Nonnenmacher/Ring 'invention'.

Cheers, Theo

[Stig Jarlevik]

John/Theo

Since Johannes seems not to be following this thread, he lists his two first victories in 1939 with 3./JGr 152
One Ms 406 on 24.9.1939
One Po 637 on 4.10.1939

Cheers
Stig

[Theo Boiten]

Thanks for that Stig, -it would be interesting indeed if John can follow up these two Abschüsse with Elstermann's Flugbuch entries!

Cheers, Theo

[John Manrho]

Not sure where Johannes got his info from, I think we need some evidence... The one for 24/9/39 is listed in Prien's work but just as an assumption.

Although I really did not need to check the FB (as these two are not in my notes..) I did fetch the FB from the archived boxes and checked it;

24/9/39....11. Frontflug (17.04-18.10 Uhr Biblis), no remarks
4/10/39....did not fly....

The flight on 30/9/39 I mentioned in an earlier post was his 23. Frontflug (15.57-17.34 Uhr) and there he reported something that could be read as "Luftsieg"....but that is really all and I am simply not sure....

John

[Theo Boiten]

Thanks a lot John for clearing this up, much appreciated!

Cheers, Theo

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Many thanks to all who have participated in this thread and in particular to John Manrho for his detailed post regarding the career of this pilot. I think that much of the confusion regarding any possible victories that Leutnant Willi Elstermann claimed with 2./JGr 152 is due to the fact that there was a Leutnant Horst Elstermann who simultaneously was serving with 3./JGr 152. This was the man that claimed victories on 24 September 1939 (and following the aerial combat had to perform a belly-landing near Weilerbach) and 6 October 1939. Apparently, there is some mixing of the details of the two men.

Horrido!

Leo

[John Manrho]

Leo,

For me than the question pops up what kind of evidence we have concerning the claims of Lt. Horst Elstermann......where documented?

Does anybody have an idea what happened to this Elstermann?

Thanks,

John

[John Manrho]

No one? I would be interested to learn more about this Horst Elstermann and what kind of supportive evidence we have on the claims of this pilot.

John

[Leo Etgen]

Hi John

Honestly, I can be of little help as you have far better resource material available than I but his name does appear in various publications such as Fledgling Eagles by Shores and Ehrengardt as well as Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 Teil 2 by Prien and his team. Unfortunately, information about JGr 152 and I./ZG 52 appears to be extremely fragmentary and often contradictory for what I have seen due to the loss of historical records. It certainly would be interesting to learn more about this pilot but I do wonder if that would be possible given what researchers such as Larry Hickey have stated regarding the lack of data for the Zerstörer units in 1939 and 1940.

Horrido!

Leo

[John Manrho]

Leo,

Ok, already started digging.....does anybody know where the name Horst was mentioned? I am looking for the original source. Trying to solve the mix up....

regards,

John