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Old 13th February 2020, 04:33
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

More details to the November 17, 1944 IL-2 claims in the Gyöngyös, Hungary area. As previously discussed, Hungarian Bf 109G pilots have claimed 4 IL-2s near Gyöngyös this day:

2 IL-2s were claimed by 1Lt. Flóznik Ervin (Bf 109G, 102/1.Sq.),
2 IL-2s were claimed by Capt. Hedrey Szilárd (Bf 109G, 102/1.Sq.).

Checking the 5 VA, 4 GvShAD, 90 GvShAP records, this regiment has lost 4+2 IL-2s this day:

Between 07:50-09:10, local, eight 90 GvShAP IL-2s, escorted by six 122 IAP Yak-9s attacked the Gyöngyös-Hort area and over Hort, they were attacked by 4 'Fw 190's. Here 1 IL-2 was lost:

Gv.Ml.Lt. Mihail Emelyanovich Sudorgin (OK)

Between 10:20-11:40, local, six 90 GvShAP IL-2s, escorted by six 122 IAP Yak-9s attacked the Hort area again. Over Csány, 8 'Fw 190's attacked them. (Soviets regularly reported the Hungarian Bf 109s as 'Fw 190's, perhaps due to their different camuflage.) During the very intense dogfight, 3 IL-2s were lost here:

Gv.Capt. Ivan Prokofevich Kurilov (KIA)
Gv.Ml.Lt. Vasilii Andreevich Ivlev (WIA)
Gv.Ml.Lt. Nikolai Vasilevich Halin (WIA)

The 90 GvShAP mechanical records have written off 4 IL-2s by November 17, 1944:

10392 - complete loss
10618
11360 - destroyed
1872699 - complete loss

...and by November 18, 1944 two more:

303933 - destroyed
1875681 - scrapped for spare parts

Since on November 18, 1944 the 90 GvShAP had no combat mission and AC losses, these were probably just seriously damaged planes on November 17, 1944 and the soviet mechanics just simply gave up on them.

All of this suggests that the 4 Hungarian IL-2 claims on November 17, 1944 were probably all legitimate aerial victories, not overclaims.

Gabor
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