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  #1  
Old 5th February 2020, 14:43
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

From Martin Middlebrook's "The Nuremberg Raid":
"The U.S.A.A.F. had recently sent four long-range fighters – two Lightnings and two Mustangs – to operate with 100 Group in an experimental Intruder role and these were now stationed at the Mosquito airfield at Little Snoring. They had recently flown to Berlin with Bomber Command and were to fly that night to Nuremberg. It is unlikely that any of the R.A.F. bomber crews knew that American fighters were flying with them in this manner."

I didn't knew about that either, can someone provide more information (or a good source) on the use of these US fighters in that role?
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Old 5th February 2020, 17:14
harryurz harryurz is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Martin Streetly's "Confound & Destroy" history of 100 Group references this on page 82.
The "Intruder Detachment" was formed in March 1944 under Major T Gates and based at Little Snoring. Air Commodore R Chisolm acted as 100 Gp Liasion Officer and became operational on 24/25 March when Major Gates took a Mustang to berlin and back. Nine more sorties were made by the end of March. Working closely with 515 sqn, 21 more sorties were scheduled in April, ten of which were completed. By the end of April it was obvious that US single seaters wre unsuitable for intruder work at night and the detatchment was disbanded.

Doesnt mention P38s as pure intruders, though there is reference to the aircraft being used for ELINT operations with 3 P-38 "droop snoots" detached from the 7th Photographic group.
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Old 5th February 2020, 17:59
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Thank you
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Old 5th February 2020, 21:42
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Alfred,

Perhaps take a look at this TOCH thread of 2011 as well: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=24250

Regards,
Leendert
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Old 5th February 2020, 22:45
alieneyes1 alieneyes1 is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

No. 192 Squadron had several P38 "droopsnoots" on strength, flown by USAAF crews (pilot and special operator)

Serials are shown as, for example, "Lightning 516"
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Old 5th February 2020, 23:19
MW Giles MW Giles is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

10 years on and I have more of the story, but it is a matter of piecing fragments together, no one place to look.

Evidently Major Gates promised "big things" would come of the experiment. There are sarcastic references to this in the records when the detachment was wound up

Martin
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Old 6th February 2020, 10:42
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Thank you guys, very interesting subject.
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Old 6th February 2020, 14:55
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by alieneyes1 View Post
No. 192 Squadron had several P38 "droopsnoots" on strength, flown by USAAF crews (pilot and special operator)

Serials are shown as, for example, "Lightning 516"
No.192 Squadron, in fact, operated 4 P-38 "Droop Snoots" between 01/09/1944 - 06/03/1945 - 43-28479, 44-23156, 44-23501 & 44-23515 (no "Lightning 516").

It is interesting to note that the P-38 44-23156 completed the first and last missions undertaken at Foulsham. Following the loss of Capt. Brink and Lt Kunze in 44-23515*, the aircraft was not replaced, and neither was 43-28479 pressed into service to fill the void, it having completed just one sortie during the entire period. The majority of missions , some eighty in total**, involved just two aircraft, 44-23501 and 44-23156. Lieutenant Frances I Kunze was also not replaced , the remainder of the missions being flown by (Observers/Special Operators), Lts. W.H. Zeidler, T.C. Holt and W.B. Stallcup. Captain Kasch, the Unit's Commanding Officer, completed just two of them. The Americans had enjoyed a successful and happy association with 192 Squadron and on 7th March, 1945, they quietly packed their bags and left Foulsham, without ceremony, to rejoin the 36th Bombardment Squadron (H) at Alconbury (.p.126).

*
26/10/1944 - 44-23515 - Pilot: Capt F.B. Brink, Observer: Lt F.I. Kunze - Patrol off Dutch coast south of Zeider Zee investigating 'Big Ben' traffic. Failed to return, aircraft ditched North Sea, crew lost (p.119 & 123).

**
Full mission list in book: Date/Aircraft/Pilot/Observer/Patrol Details.

See:
Esiponage In The Ether: The Wartime Story of 192 (Bomber Support) Squadron.
Rees,William j & John E Rees.
Warrington:Compaid Graphics,1999.
pp.117-126

Col.
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Old 8th February 2020, 01:15
ATCCbengt ATCCbengt is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Little Snoring ORB (AIR 28/490):Major T.L. Gates of the Special American Flight with 4 other American Officers and four American N.C.O's attached on temporary duty with two Mustang and two Lightning aircraft arrived on 21st February 1944. They left with two Mustangs and one Lightning on 27th April.


No. 100 Group ORB (AIR 25/777) has the following: Operation "Flower". The U.S.A.A.F. detachment at Little Snoring under command of Major Gates, has successfully carried out 9 intruder sorties against enemy airfields in the vicinity of the various bomber Command targets. Major Gates himself carried out the first sortie in a single-engined fighter over Berlin at night on the night of 24/25th March.


Both AIR 28/490 and AIR 25/777 from the National Archives, Kew, London.


Bengt
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Old 8th February 2020, 01:35
ATCCbengt ATCCbengt is offline
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Re: US fighters with No. 100 Group RAF

Further on in AIR 25/777: "Major Gates, the leader of the American contingent at Little Snoring, has made history by being the first single-engined fighter pilot to fly over Berlin during a night raid. He is extremly keen, and more than willing to take advantage of what little experience we can muster at this Headquarters. There seemed great possibility in this intruding in P.38's and P.51's and there is no doubt that full advantage will be taken by these officers of any operational opportunities that offers".


Bengt
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