ToT Lorient raid 7-8 February 1943?

[Theo Boiten]

Dear all,

Who can tell me the ToT of the Main Force that bombed Lorient on 7-8 February 1943?

Cheers and thanks, Theo

[MW Giles]

According to night raid sheet

Zero hour was 20:15 and the raid was in two phases

Marking Z-1 to Z+10 (20:14 to 20:25) - 18 a/c attacked
Phase I (Fire raising) Z+3 to Z+15 (20:18 to 20:30) - 83 a/c attacked
Phase II (Main) Z+75 to Z+105 (21:30 to 22:00) - 194 a/c attacked

Actual bombing lasted until 22:07 - 4 a/c bombed after Z+105

295 claimed to have bombed primary

Regards

Martin

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The book "Raids aériens sur la Bretagne tome 2" says that 7-8 February 1943 raid on Lorient started at 7 p.m on the 7th and ended at 2 a.m. on the 8th.

He displays attacking bombers in six groups (waves?) called PFF, G I, G III, G IV, G V and G VI (note no G II). There is no loss given for each group

Known units per group.
PFF: 7 Sqn
G I: 12, 103, 166, 199, 300, 301, 305, 460 Sqn.
G III: 115, 75, 90, 149, 214, 218, 35, 83, 156, 109 Sqn
G IV: 10, 51, 76, 77, 78, 102, 158, 196, 466 Sqn
G V: 44, 61, 408 Sqn
G VI: none identified, 51 Wellingtons

Losses per group
G I: 1 of 166, 1 of 199
G III: 1 of 109
G IV: 1 of 158
G V: 2 of 44, 1 of 61 and 1 of 408

The ORB of 408 Sqn is available online, but I have not checked it.

The books says that 156 Sqn dispatched 6 Lancaster in G III. The squadron ORB confirms the 6, but one took off, bombed and landed one hour after the hours.
The five first took off between 1810 and 1825 hrs, bombed between 2017 and 2024 hrs and returned to base between 2220 and 2310 hrs.
The last took off at 1930, bombed at 2126 hrs and landed at 2340 hrs. He reported that at 2137 hrs an aircraft was seen to burst into flames and fall to the ground at Lignol.

The ORB of 467 Sqn (not listed by the book above) shows 4 Lancaster being sent, taking off between 1910 and 1944 hrs and returning between 0105 and 0151 hrs.

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

No.408 (Goose) Sqn RCAF. Summary of 6 Group's participation in the Lorient raid, here:

http://www.6bombergroup.ca/Feb43/Feb7~843.html

Summary of No.156 Squadron's efforts, here:

http://www.156squadron.com/display_m...?MissionId=668

No.109 Sqn did not lose any aircraft on the Lorient raid.

Col.

[MW Giles]

Just an observation, his Group V is 5 Group, Group III is 3 Group etc . This explains why there is not a Group II as 2 Group flew day bombers during this period

8 Group Pathfinder Marking - Lancaster 13, Halifax 5
Phase I
8 Group - Lancaster 4, Halifax 2, Stirling 6
1 Group - Lancaster 12
3 Group - Stirling 15
4 Group - Halifax 19/20
5 Group - Lancaster 9/11
6 Group - Wellington III 14/16

Phase II
1 Group - Lancaster 7/8, Wellington III 12/14, Wellington (423) 4/5, Wellington IV 7
3 Group - Stirling 36/41, Wellington III 4/5
4 Group - Halifax 33/36, Wellington X 17/18
5 Group - Lancaster 30/32
6 Group - Halifax 15/18, Wellington III 29/33

29/33 would indicate 33 took off and 29 claimed to have bombed primary

Regards

Martin

[Theo Boiten]

Thanks a lot chaps -most useful!

Cheers, Theo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by MW Giles

Just an observation, his Group V is 5 Group, Group III is 3 Group etc . This explains why there is not a Group II as 2 Group flew day bombers during this period

You're right, that is what happens when one posts on the forum at 3 a.m. I didn't think of that because 408 Sqn was in Group V according to the book (they were in 6 Group then), and I have always seen this written as "5 Group" rather than "Group V".

Another French book, using many local sources (but not giving sources by chapter or event), the first flares were dropped at 1945 hrs, and the last bombs fell at 2230 hrs.

[Theo Boiten]

Hi Laurent,

.. out of curiosity; does the book Raids aériens sur la Bretagne give specific details about the Marine Flak claims during the RAF Bomber Command raids against Lorient & St. Nazaire in the first four months of 1943?

Reason for asking is that I have gathered, for my new series of books, only details on Luftwaffe Flak claims against these raids; Marine Flak claims details are still largely lacking ..

Cheers, Theo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Theo Boiten

Hi Laurent,

.. out of curiosity; does the book Raids aériens sur la Bretagne give specific details about the Marine Flak claims during the RAF Bomber Command raids against Lorient & St. Nazaire in the first four months of 1943?

Reason for asking is that I have gathered, for my new series of books, only details on Luftwaffe Flak claims against these raids; Marine Flak claims details are still largely lacking ..

Cheers, Theo

The book does not include much details from German point of view. Civilian casualties numbers are included for example, but not German ones.

As for claims, the book is not listing them, only losses and with few details (ex: 12 bombers of xxx Sqn dropped xxx bombs, 1 lost).

As for Marine Flak claims, I have English translations of the War Diary of the German Naval Staff Operations Division (downloaded from the website of the US Naval War College some years ago). These files are not complete, covering the following months: 9/39 to 8/40, 12/41 to 9/42, 3/43 to 1/44, 3/44, 6/44, 8/44 to 10/44.

If is a high-level war diary, not giving precise hours and location but for example here is what is reported for 1st March 1943:

(extract of the North Sea part of the diary)
"Starting at 1937 harassing sorties were made between Terschelling and Wangeroog. From 2015 strong enemy air forces penetrated between Esbjerg and Heligoland. The attack was concentrated on Berlin. One plane was shot down by a patrol boat north of Terschelling and one each by naval anti-aircraft guns near Brunsbuettel and Heligoland. The sets in Borkum, Heligoland, Wangeroog, Sande and Schillig were jammed."

[Theo Boiten]

Hello and good evening Laurent,

Thanks for the interesting info. I've tried to send you a PM but it appears that your PM box is full; could you please send me a PM so I can get in touch with you by private email to exchange some further information?

Cheers and thanks, Theo