looking for info on a crashed HE111 from II/KG53

[Thomas H]

Hi,

I'm looking for info on a crashed HE111 from 5 or 6 Staffel II/KG53

The HE111 crashed in 1941 at or close to Kuzemki (kusemki) in Russia, see map. The first losses in Russia of II/KG53 6 staffel are on 29.6.41 for 5 staffel on 1.7.41.

Any info that could help is appreciated.

Kind regards, Thomas

[Chris Goss]

The only loss by 6/KG 53 on 29 Jun 41 was Wk Nr 6999 A1+CT. I wrote about this loss in 'Flypast' last year-3 crew were captured and presumed to have been shot, 2 crew managed to get back to German lines. However, you need to be more precise with the date

[Thomas H]

Hi Chris,

The only info I have is a picture of the crashed HE111, with the II. Gruppe abzeichen clearly seen, but not a clear shot on the kennung. Could be A1+C or M, well this is my guess, will upload the picture later.

The back of the picture says "bei Kusemki 1941"

Because 4. Staffel had his own abzeichen, I would say this is a 5th or 6th Staffel plane.

The dates I gave tell me (us), that this plane crashed between 26th June 1941 (Schmauz plane, from your article) and 19th December 1941, the last plane that came down because of enemy fire in 1941 and which belonged to 5. Staffel.

[Thomas H]

This is the picture of the plane. By looking at the kennung again, I don't think it's an 'M' Because of the round corner.

So maybe it is A1+C?

[edNorth]

Version is He 111 H-6 or later (VS wood props).

[steve sheridan]

Morning Chris,
is the code you give for W.Nr 6999 correct?
i have this a/c as A1+BP and not A1+CT which would have been with 9/KG53!

Are you refering to the loss of Uffz Franz Paisdzior and crew, from your article?

best regs,
Steve.

[Chris Goss]

BP-more haste less speed and yes, it was last year's Flypast article

[steve sheridan]

Many thanks Chris.

So we still need a candidate for Thomas's photo, any other information from anybody?

Chris, did you see my post regarding Kagerbauer KG54 29.5.09 under the heading JU88 Crashed on Portland 11.8.40 ?
Was wondering if you have any further info this chap.

Best regs,
Steve.

[Thomas H]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Some questions that could help narrowing down which plane this could be:

- Am I correct that it is a plane from 5th or 6st Staffel? or did Stabstaffel and 4th Staffel also use this staffelabzeichen? I know 4th Staffel had its own abzeichen, but don't know if it was used in 1941

- On the 4th of August 1941 the Geschwader bombed Moscow for the first time. Did II/KG53 before go so far East?

- When did the cold weather start in 1941? I don't see snow on the picture and the soldier isn't dressed for cold weather. (couldn't find the answer on google)

- I guess this was an emergency/crash landing, this will exclude planes that exploded in the air, air collision or planes that really fell from the skies for other reasons.

- I'm don't have much knowledge about kennung on planes. Can the fact that the second part of the kennung starts with a white letter give some info?

Thanks in advance, Thomas

[obdl3945]

Hi, Thomas...

I think the aircraft in your photo is A1+CP. My reasoning for this is as follows:

The unit emblem under the cockpit has a dark band underneath the bomb. I believe this was red, and indicitive of the II.Gruppe, whose I/D colour was red. I am also aware, however, that at least one source suggests it as being the unit badge for the entire Geschwader, but this would then beg the question - why the need for a red horizontal band?

If, for a moment, we agree that it is II.Gruppe, then the Staffeln within II.Gruppe would have been 4. 5. & 6.Staffel. I would say we could discount 5.Staffel, as the letter 'C' is, in my opinion, clearly not red (5.Staffel I/D colour), so it would either be white or yellow. Personally, I think it's yellow. It doesn't seem quite as light as the white outline of the fuselage cross, and the front section of the propellor spinners, more often than not painted in the Staffel colour, seem darker in shade to the white background of the unit emblem, so I think they are yellow, thus pointing to the possibility of the letter 'C' being yellow as well, and therefore suggestive of the fact that the last letter would be the 6.Staffel indicator, 'P'.

This is only my opinion, though, and others may well disagree. Interesting photo, though... .

Regards...

Paul