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Old 3rd September 2009, 01:25
FZ1FZ1FZ1 FZ1FZ1FZ1 is offline
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14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

Hi folks,

I wonder if you can help me please? I'm trying to find details of the 14/LG1 Bf110-C3 that was shot down on 15 Sep 1940.

Mason's "Battle Over Britain" lists it as "Shot down by British Fighters S/E of London". I think that this was the one shot down by Josef Frantisk as his was the only other claim for a Bf110 on that date and it was claimed at "London to Hastings" (which is S/E of London).

The crew are listed as Ltn Hugo Adametz and Ogefr Stief but can anyone tell me what the squadron code letter was please (I know it would have been L1+?K, I just need the ?)

I've been buying reference books over the past couple of months, but I've run out of money for the moment, so I was wondering if anyone could possibly have a look in their books for me?

I've been told that this sort of info is in a series of books called "The Blitz - Then & Now", so thats the next one on the shopping list!

Thanks in advance for any info you can find.

Cheers,

Jon
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Old 3rd September 2009, 05:43
Doug Stankey Doug Stankey is offline
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

Concerning your query:

There is a rather substantial book about the history of this unit, yet it doesn’t appear to list aircraft losses!

Eimansberger, Ludwig von. Zerstörer Gruppe; a History of V./LG 1 – I./NJG 3 (Atglen: Schiffer Publishing, 1998). ISBN 0-7643-0479-8.
The book reveals little about this incident but mentions that the gruppe was flying escort for II. and III./KG 2. The aircraft in question was apparently shot down by 213 Squadron and that the crew was seen to be in the water. It is unclear if these were the crew of the aircraft in question.

From :
Vasco, John J. Cornwell, Peter D. Zerstörer (Drayton, Norwich: JAC Publications, 1995).
we find some useful data:
15.09.40 Bf 110 C-3 of 14.(Z)/LG 1 lost (code unstated), WNr. unstated - severely damaged in combat south of London and crashed in Channel on return flight. Crew: Lt.Hugo Adametz, Ogefr. Rudi Stief, both MIA.

From:
Ramsey, Winston G. (ed.), The Blitz, Then And Now, 3 volumes London, 1988-90).
The Blitz book doesn’t mention this a/c at all!

But,
Ramsey, Winston. The Battle of Britain, Then and Now (London; After the Battle Pub., 1980) ISBN: 0-900913-19-3 [BoB]
Adds only that the a/c had been on an escort sortie over the Thames estuary.

That’s about all that can be likely derived from the published matter.

Good luck with you delvings.

DGS
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Old 3rd September 2009, 10:07
FZ1FZ1FZ1 FZ1FZ1FZ1 is offline
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

Doug,

Thank you very much indeed for taking the time and trouble to dig out all this information for me and for providing the references; its very much appreciated.

I'm now quite puzzled as to the identity of Frantisek's confirmed victory on 15/9/40. In the Battle Over Britain, there are three Bf110 losses listed on that date, two claimed by named 303 Sqn pilots (not Frantisek) and one unattributed.

However, if the unattributed one was indeed a 213 Sqn victory, then I have absolutely no lead as to what the identity of Frantisek's confirmed one was.

If anyone has any ideas or leads that I might follow, I would be very grateful for any suggestions (I'm fairly new to this game!)

Jon
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Old 3rd September 2009, 15:04
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

FZ1FZ1FZ1,

As soon as you start trying to match up claims against losses you are entering a minefield...
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Old 3rd September 2009, 16:59
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

OK, thanks for that - I'll stick with the orginial question about the squadron ID of the aircraft then.

Cheers,

Jon
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Old 4th September 2009, 03:09
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

FZ1FZ1FZ1,

That can still be problematic in many cases. There are several 'old hands' on here who will confirm that once you have more than one RAF Squadron intercepting a decent sized Luftwaffe raid, then overclaiming occurs. And trying to match who-got-who becomes very difficult indeed. What happens is that the greater number of aircraft involved, the greater the ratio of overclaiming. Alfred Price's book on the '15th September' highlights this point superbly, as does Stephen Bungay's excellent 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' (I recommend you get hold of a copy of this one and read it cover to cover).

Some claims, on both sides, are way off the mark. I've been there and can speak from personal study about this.
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Old 4th September 2009, 09:51
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Re: 14/LG1 - Bf110 loss on 15 Sep 1940 ?

Thanks very much for the advice John and for the references.

Next pay-day, I'll get the Stephen Bungay book as recommended.

Jon
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