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Old 29th April 2012, 08:21
Antoine Antoine is offline
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bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

Hi, everybody.

For a modelling project, I'm trying to identify the exact type of an aircraft from legion Condor 1.J/88, bf-109E coded 6°119.

I don't have much paper documentation about Spanish Civil War, but I've came upon Robert Forsyth's 'Aces of the legion Condor' (Osprey AOTH n°99).

Overall, I find this book well written, precise and very interesting, but I've also found something quite disturbing concerning the aircraft above.

The profile (N°20, page 37) shows an E-3 with MG/FF in the wings. Fine.

But there's a picture (Page 99) showing the aircraft from close-up, eleven o'clock low, where there's no trace of the MG/FF barrel, only the hole like on early E-1.
It's also impossible to see the bulges underside the gun that would identify for sure the aircraft as an E-3.
Another picture on the next page show 119 from farther away, and still without any barrel.

My opinion is that this aircraft is an E-1, not an E-3.
What is yours?

And also, any informations about the pilot?
Said to be hauptmann Siebelt Reents, staffelkapitan of 1.J/88 from september 1938 to the war's end. He seems to have gone to the nachtjagd, and then to schlacht. Completely unkown to me.

Feel free to help, many thanks.
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Old 29th April 2012, 09:57
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Re: bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

Always thrust the images about the type.
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Old 29th April 2012, 10:16
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Re: bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

And what if the barrel have been taken away for cleaning, or else?
The pics are not sufficient in this case, to my opinion.
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Old 29th April 2012, 19:21
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Re: bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

In this way you will have many 'what if' and no specific reply
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Old 5th May 2012, 19:42
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Re: bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

Aircraft 6 • 119 of the Legion Condor was a Bf 109E-1. The Werknummer is, sadly, not known to me. It was the airplane of Hptm. u. Stkp. Siebelt Reentz, who commanded 1. J/88 between 02.09.38 and war’s end. Reentz is identified as the pilot of 6 • 119 in the photo caption in Ries/Ring, Legion Condor, p. 218. This aircraft survived German service, served with Ejercito del Aire, and at the beginning of 1946 was converted to take a Hispano-Suiza HS-12Z-89 engine.

References for the above are:
Ries/Ring, Legion Condor, pp. 218, 226, photos, and p. 251; Cerdá, Les Mess. espagnols, pp. 27, 44, photos; Cerdá, Les Chasseurs de la Lég. Con., pp. 19, 21, photos; Cerdá, Los Cazadores de la Leg. Con., pp. 71, 76, 109, photos.

Aircraft artwork, even the most skilled and respectable, should never ever be considered as a reliable source for serious historical research. What you have experienced is a living example of this maxim.

RA
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Old 16th May 2012, 07:44
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Re: bf-109E 6°119 from 1.J/88, E-1 or E-3?

Hi,
Many thanks!
I'm very sorry to notice your answer only now, but anyway, your informations are very helpfull to me.
Cheers!
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