Habemus Papam

[Franek Grabowski]

And the simple question is: does anyone know what Flak unit and where the Pope served in during the war?

[John Beaman]

I'll add another question about the new Pope to Franek's: I was not aware that membership in the Hitler Youth was "mandatory" beginning in 1941. Can anyone confirm this?

[chris schmitz]

Well a short note from me,so what if he did join the hitlerjugend,there were milions in that period,and i think its normal for somebody to try and defend your country,but because germany lost the war,and the politiks of the nazi'swas wrong,doesnt mean that joining the armed forces is a big crime.
If everybody knows that what he does now is something to consider,because who know what he or she will be in 40 to 50 years,BULLSHITT!!!!!!!!!!

[John Beaman]

Chris:

My question was not meant as a criticism or to be provacative. For historical interest I merely wanted to know if membership in the Hitler Youth was mandatory. I had always been told it was not.

Certainly, the armed forces draft, like all countries in WWII was mandatory.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by John Beaman

I merely wanted to know if membership in the Hitler Youth was mandatory. I had always been told it was not.

Don't know for sure but in the museum at Berchtesgaden, there is a display about how kids progressed at different ages through the Jungvolk, then the HJ (or BDM for girls), RAD and military service.

If the HJ wasn't mandatory it was clearly "normal" and the system was set up to suck you in early and carry you along through the successive organisations (and, of course, get you killed).

I have Michael Burleigh's excellent "The Third Reich: A New History" - I'll check up the section on the HJ.

[chris schmitz]

Now joining the hitlerjugend was not mandatory,but howeever,if you didnt joing,life was allitle dificault,but at the top there where i believe less mambership than there was youth.........

[robert_schulte]

This is what I found at wikipedia:

As a youth, Joseph was drafted into national service in Germany during World War II.

In 1943, at the age of 16, he and many of his classmates were drafted into the Flak or anti-aircraft corps. They were posted first to Ludwigsfeld, north of Munich, as part of a detachment responsible for guarding a BMW aircraft engine plant. Next they were sent to Unterföring, northwest of Munich and briefly to Innsbruck. From Innsbruck their unit went to Gilching to protect the jet fighter base and to attack allied bombers as they massed to begin their runs towards Munich. At Gilching, Ratzinger served in telephone communications.

On September 10, 1944 his class was released from the Flak Corps. Returning home, Ratzinger had already received a new draft notice for the Reichsarbeitdienst. He was posted to the Hungarian border area of Austria which had been annexed by Germany in the Anschluss of 1938. Here he was trained in the "cult of the spade" and upon the surrender of Hungary to Russia was put to work digging setting up anti-tank defences in preparation for the expected Red Army offensive. November 20, 1944 his unit was released from service.

Ratzinger again returned home. After three weeks passed, he was drafted into the army at Munich and assigned to the infantry barracks in the center of Traunstein, the city near which his family lived. After basic infantry training, his unit was sent to various posts around the city. They were never sent to the front.

In late April or early May, days or weeks before the German surrender, Ratzinger deserted. He left the city of Traunstein and returned to his village on the outskirts. Desertion was widespread during the last weeks of the war, even though in principle punishable by death; executions, frequently extrajudicial, continued to the end. In his memoirs, Ratzinger reports being afraid of being caught and his relief at the arrival of American forces in his village.

He was briefly interned in an open-air prisoner of war camp near Ulm and was released on June 19, 1945

And regarding Hitler Youth:

In December of 1936 membership of the Hitler Youth stood at just over 5 million. That same month, the Hitler Youth became obligatory and membership was required by law (Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend). This obligation was affirmed in 1939 with the Jugenddienstpflicht. Membership could be enforced even against the will of the parents.

[Dénes Bernád]

I found Wikipedia not being always a reliable source. Regarding Pope Bendict XVI, some morons modified the Wikipedia entry, like this:

Benedict was considered to be Pope John Paul II </wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II>'s "right hand man" and also one of his closest friends, and during the Pope's final illness, he carried out many of the Pope's functions as leader of the Catholic Church, such as molesting young boys and degrading women.

I think this was corrected by now.

As for, "upon the surrender of Hungary to Russia(...)", as a sidenote, Hungary never "surrendered" to Russia (or the USSR). Instead, it was conquerred/occupied (to some, liberated) by the Red Army.

[Ruy Horta]

Although the topic is related through the Bendict's service as a Flak helper, I'm going to move this thread to the off topic area.

BTW

Dénes

If we discount the RSI, was Hungary the only country to stick it out with Germany until the final collapse?

[G. Warrener]

Dear Me!

One of my older German friends was at Gymnasium (Grammar school) in Krefeld, late 1944. His class were presented with two alternatives - SS or Flak - so he chose Flak.

At the time he was shunned by others who had chosen differently.......

Graham