HE111 Losses August 1940

[Jon]

Can any one help with the identity and cause of any HE111 losses on either 11th and 13th August 1940 due to action over England ?

Regards

Jon

[Chris Goss]

I suggest you refer to 'Battle of Britain: The & Now'. There were no He 111 losses on 11 Aug (but one overnight 11-12 Aug which crashed near Wimborne) whilst the only He 111 loss on 13 Aug was a He 111 (from the same unit-KG 27) which crashed in the Channel

[Jon]

Thanks Chris.
Yes i have looked at these pages but i am puzzled.
I have a copy of the 238 Squadron Operations Record Book for this date and it states that amongst the BF109's claimed by 238 during this day Sgt Bann and Sgt Marsh claimed as destroyed a HE111....Yet as you rightly say no HE111 is reported for this date as being lost in action.

I am aware of the often mis identification in combat of enemy aircraft, but were DO17's and JU88's able to have been mis identified as something so distinct in shape as a Heinkel?... Yes easy for me to say i know, sat safe and warm in my own home not in fear of death, but what are your thoughts on this possibility of a mis identification ? ???

I can only assume the aircraft shot down was either a JU88 or DO17.
They definately shot something down on this date as the report clearly states "destroyed" and "confirmed".

Regards
Jon

[Chris Goss]

In the heat of battle, all that matters is identifying friend or foe hence type is secondary

[Peter Cornwell]

My good friend Chris is 'on the money' as usual - type immaterial.

The He111 claimed by Yellow Section of No.238 Sqdn (Bann, Marsh, & Domalga) on 11 August 1940 was in fact a Ju88 of KG54. I and II/KG54 lost a total of five aircraft and it is unlikely we will ever be able to resolve which of the four likely candidates it was.

On 13 August 1940 Bann was the only RAF pilot to file a claim for a He111 over the channel off Portland & this seems to me to relate to the loss of a 7/KG27 aircraft reported shot down '60km north of Cherbourg'. The German pilot (unknown to me at present) was rescued by the SND but three of his crew were killed; Oberfw Weber, Obergefr Eggers, and Obergefr Klemm.

[Franek Grabowski]

Peter
Marian Domagała claimed a Me 109 on 11.08.1940! Actual Combat Report reveals that as he was firing at it, another Hurricane crossed his line of fire and got alighted. Pilot attempted bail out but apparently failed or was not rescued. I think he was Sgt Geoffrey Gledhill.
I think the CR is quoted in Poles in defence of Britain.
On 13.08.1940 there were several claims for Ju 88s in the area. Am I correct assuming Bann's claim was in the morning? If so it was either a Ju 88 of I/KG54 attacking Farnborough or a one of II/KG54 attacking Odiham. No He 111s taking part. Cover provided by I/JG2, II/JG2, II/JG53 and V/LG1.
I can imagine you are confused with the He 111 loss, I am with another, claimed on 31.08.1940 - a pilot reported that he escorted it down to the ground and saw it force land - no losses being recorded in BoBT&N!

Jon
I am afraid that you have to get through all the reports covering the raid and to attempt to recreate the battle. Some work but also some fun, try it!
By the way, do you have any Squadron photos of Bann, perhaps showing Polish pilots or any aircraft?

[Jon]

Please accept a big thanks from me for your answers here.
It has set me on a course to i think,make Sgt Banns brother Maurice a very happy man answering all the questions he has had for 60+years.

Franek : Sadly other than the few longshot pictures of238 Squadron aircraft often seen in books etc.. i have no pictures at all of their aircraft.
Sadly even though 238 served almost right through the battle no one appeared to have a camera on the squadron!!!

So far as the Polish pilots he served with,all i can say is Maurice said his brother spoke very highly of them and he became good friends with Sgt Domagala.
Should i ever get hold of any photos or information regards the Poles in 238 i shall pass it onto you.
Thanks again.
Jon

[Chris Goss]

238 Sqn was not particularly photogenic-I have photos of a damaged tail and a crash-landed Hurrucane (Sgt Marsh's). I have more photos of 238 when they had Spits prior to Hurricanes!

[Jon]

Hi Chris.
Would it be possible to purchase copies of these from you ?
Kind Regards.
Jon

[Franek Grabowski]

Jon
I understand you would like to have a photo of Domagała.
Sadly, he passed away in 1991 in Glasgow. He was quite an interesting person. Born in 1909, he was probably and elderly man for most of his colleagues in 238. I do not know if he left any family that can be contacted.
Are there any letters or documents held by Maurice that mention the former? Also, do you mean Maurice has no photos and documents once hold by his brother? I understand personal effects were returned to families.

Chris
Do you have a date or serial for Marsh's Hurricane? This wil save me some time of searching. Also, do you know when approximatelly a photo of tail was taken?