19.09.42, Kotluban, LaGG-3 vs Bf110 of 1./ZG1

[Evgeny Velichko]

Greetings!

Found very impressive account.

Anatoly Nikolayevich Gordeev, pilot of 291 iap, equipped with LaGG-3 (armed with 37mm cannon Sh-37)

We came over Kotluban railroad station, and saw about 50 enemy a/c, bombers, to attack our troops. We engaged them.

-What type of german a/c You saw there?
It was mixed group - there were Ju88's and Me-110's.

- Did Binov rammed a "Messershmitt"?
He rammed a bomber. Note - I was the only who saw it, nobody else. Germans panicked - theyr aces hated that "barbarian way" of air combat. They knew that we are bad aimers, but they scared much about midair collisions. We, in our turn, were some kind of "hunters" - we want to destroy an enemy in any way, we never listen what was "ground control" told us. Squadron leader, Major Denisov, died because of it - he was able to shot down one bomber, and when he was attacking his next - he was cought by Me-110's and killed. Ground control tryed to warn him - but he didnt listen at all. In some minutes, we engaged that bomber group and they dropped their bombs before reaching target.

- What was Your losses in that combat?
When aircombat ended, I start to count - we started with 12 a/c, and at that moment I could saw only 8. We claimed 9 enemy a/c shot down, but Major Denisov and Major Binov, Sergeants Mamatov, Nekipelov and Martchenko failed to return - five pilots. About ramm attack - when I was in attack as a wingman, I saw a LaGG-3 diving vertically on a bomber and cut his fuselage in two,

- Not a wing, not a tail section - directly a fuselage?
Yes. He smashed it, and part of a bomber - engines and wings, slowly wirling, fell to earth. Our fighter, heavy smoking, disappeared in smoke low at ground level. We never saw his number, and didnt knew who was he.

- This ramm was fiiled as a Binov's claim?
Yes, later it was filed to Binov, becase he probably collided with enemy a/c too... But who knows... May be because of political matters... Now I realise, that at such angle and speed at the moment of collision our pilot could not survive. Later, Binov returned to unit on wheels, Sergeant Mamatov came back to, but Denisov, Marchenko and Nekipelov didnt survive.

Total:
Major Lev Binov (Komissar of Squadron) - claimed 1 "bomber"/Me-110, landed damaged out of ammo.
Major Denisov - claimed 1 "bomber"/Me-110, was shot down by either Lt. R.Ossmann or Lt. P.Jenne of 1./ZG1 and killed.
Sergeant Mamatov - was shot down, later returned

Sergeant Nikolay Nekipelov - killed.
Sergeant Pavel Martchenko - killed.

One of them Was shot down by either Lt. R.Ossmann or Lt. P.Jenne of 1./ZG1, and second - was killed when rammed Bf110 of Oblt. Theo Kehl.

I dont know how many Ju88 of KG51 were lost, but pilots of 291 iap were able to shot down one more Bf110 of 1./ZG1 to 100% loss. After all, only 6 their claims were filled as "confirmed" to them. Also, we must note that soviet pilots misidentified "twin-engined bomber" (Ju88) and "twinengined fighter" (Bf110) during that aircombat.

[Jim P.]

Here are the Ju 88 losses from the East on 19-Sep. No KG 51 losses.

Ju 88A-4, 5865, Schönthaler, Fw. Kurt, , III., 8., KG 76, , , , , 19-Sep-42, WIA due to enemy fighters. Bf also WIA., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , PlQu. 49 184, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Karl Leupold, ,
Ju 88A-4, 6676, Kienberger, Ofw. Heinrich, , I., 1., KG 3, , , , , 19-Sep-42, WIA due to Flak. Notlandung. Bf also WIA., F DKiG., Lw.Kdo.Ost/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , PlQu. 47 761, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Herbert Meilinger, ,
Ju 88A-4, 8660, Seliger, Uffz. Horst, , II., 5., KG 54, , B3+IN, , , 19-Sep-42, MIA with crew due to Flak. Sortie to railway at Welikije-Luki., Coded 'B3+FN' per Radtke., Lw.Kdo.Ost/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Radtke, KG 54, p.301, 356, , bei Welikije-Luki (PlQu. 67 82), 100%, F, B Ogefr. Ludwig Wienold, Bf Ogefr. Walter Wille & Bs Ogefr. Georg Deist, ,
Ju 88A-14, 144155, WEIBLE, Ofw. Ernst, , II., 5., KG 54, , B3+AN, , , 19-Sep-42, Flak. B & Bs KIA. Sortie to railway at Welikije-Luki., F RK. 100% per Radtke., Lw.Kdo.Ost/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Radtke, KG 54, p.301, 356, , Eisenbahn Welikije-Luki (PlQu. 67 82), 10%, F, B Uffz. Günther Hellinger & Bs Uffz. Erich Becker, ,
Ju 88C-6, 360029, n.n., , III., , KG 76, , , , , 19-Sep-42, Enemy fighters., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11, , PlQu. 49 184, 40%, F, , ,

And the 110 losses per the GQM and John Vasco:

Bf 110F-2, 2681, n.n., , II., 4., ZG 1, , , , , 19-Sep-42, Enemy fighters., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.134, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.325, PlQu. 45 144, 50%, F, , , Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG at Gotha in Dec-41
Bf 110D-3, 3713, Söchtig, Uffz. Richard, , I., 1., ZG 1, weiße P, S9+PH, RB+GQ, , 19-Sep-42, Crew MIA due to Luftkampf with Soviet fighters., 18-Sep, coded 'S5+PH' per loss., Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.134, Menke, südlich Bahnhof Kotluban (PlQu. 39 221), 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Heinrich Diemer, , MIAG at Braunschweig in Nov-40
Bf 110F-2, 4541, Kehl, Oblt. Theo, , I., 1., ZG 1, weiße A, S9+AH, CE+UN, , 19-Sep-42, Stkp. MIA due to being rammed by a Soviet fighter. Bf KIA., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.134; Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.325, , südlich Bahnhof Kotluban (PlQu. 49 123), 100%, F, Bf Fw. Alfred Daniger, , Luther Flzg.Werke at Braunschweig in Mar-42

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

Here are the Ju 88 losses from the East on 19-Sep. No KG 51 losses.

Thx Jim. KG51 is my mistake.

III./KG76
9.8.42 - 24.10.42 Tazinskaya Ju 88A
19-Sep-42
Ju 88A-4, W.Nr.5865, 8./KG 76, 100%
WIA due to enemy fighters. Bf also WIA.
PlQu. 49 184
http://www.mapquest.com/?q=48.791668,44.194448
Ju 88C-6, W.Nr.360029, III./KG 76, 40%
Enemy fighters.,
PlQu. 49 184
http://www.mapquest.com/?q=48.791668,44.194448

Bf 110D-3, W.Nr.3713, 1./ZG 1, S9+PH, 100%
Crew MIA due to Luftkampf with Soviet fighters.
sudlich Bahnhof Kotluban (PlQu. 49 221)
http://www.mapquest.com/?q=48.986112,43.694448
Bf 110F-2, W.Nr.4541, 1./ZG 1, S9+AH, 100%
Crew MIA due to being rammed by a Soviet fighter.
sudlich Bahnhof Kotluban (PlQu. 49 123)
http://www.mapquest.com/?q=48.986112,44.305552

So, we have 4 losses for 6 claims. Nice rate.

[Nikita Egorov]

Rather premature conclusions. 8 Ju-88s and 5 Me-110s were claimed by Soviet fighters within the day. Moreover, time of Ossmann and Jenne claims does not correspond the time of 291 IAP's combat.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Nikita - what was the time of 291 IAP combat?

[Nikita Egorov]

Around 10.15-10.30 Moscow time.