"Wirklich beschossen" claims in German materials

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Gentlemen,

well, an interesting question. I checked hundeds of detailed Abschussmeldungen in BA-MA, but don't remember any of them, which was mentioned as "wirklich beschossen" and later was claimed as a full kill, but it not means, that it's not happened sometimes.

Anyone have some details, when "wirklich beschossen" planes were confirmed as kills or were mentioned among the air victories?

Thanks in advance,

[Nick Beale]

It means "fired upon effectively" so I guess it would be similar to anRAF claim of damaged if "effectively" meant that pieces flew off or smoke was seen to emerge.

[ju55dk]

The correct german word is wirksam! The meaning is as described by Nick Beale.


Junker

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Ok, thanks for the correcting (just copied it from Tony Wood's list without thinking>;-P) but I am still interested in the answer, because the Luftwaffe did not count the damaged planes generally and not added these events to the pilot's personal successes. So, where there any of these type of claims counted as a full kill?

[Jens]

IMHO "wirklich beschossen" means "upon fired really" in sense of "really hit".

"fired upon effectivly" would mean "wirksam beschossen".

wirksam = effectivly
wirklich = really

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

According to one of the veterans of the Reichsverteidigung I have talked to, they used this term when filing a claim and relied on a later confirmation when wreckage etc was found.

He said that they started using it when attacking high-flying aircraft, because they usually fired on (and was fired on by) multiple targets, and did not always have time to follow what happened to the aircraft they engaged.

Regards,
Andreas

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Thanks Andreas,


for this interesting remebrance. BTW I found one of this type of claim against a Soviet Boston (not against an US Viermot), that's why I am looking for some further info.

[Marius]

Hi,
"wirklich beschossen" isn`t right. It has to be: "wirksam beschossen".
As I remember German pilots stated about that attacking B-17 and B-24. This means they had hit the aircraft, but didn`t knew the fate of it.
Marius