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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 5th November 2009, 01:09
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
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Last biplane v biplane combat??

Hi all

Do you think this was nearly one of the last biplane (I-153) to biplane (Gladiator) combats? (March 1940). There must have been others later in the Finnish/Soviet conflict. Can't think of any others elsewhere?

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18680

Would be interesting to know.

regards

MS
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  #2  
Old 5th November 2009, 02:02
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

There were numerous biplanes vs biplanes battles over Egypt, Libya and East Africa in late 1940. So this Winter War battle was far from being one of the last.

Later at the start of Barbarossa both sides used biplanes (Finnish, Slovak and Hungarian on the Axis side).

AFAIK the last biplane vs biplane battle was on 4 October 1942 and saw both sides (Finnish and Soviet) using the same aircraft, I-153.

See http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/polikarpov_finland.htm

By the way, the above site is the reference for biplanes in WWII.
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Old 5th November 2009, 10:22
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

Laurent

Forgot about some of the African campaigns. Not sure about Barbarossa, not many bi-plans in Luftwaffe at that time.

Agreed Finland and Russia had continuous dogfights with bi-planes.

Thanks for the link.

regards

Mark
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Old 5th November 2009, 13:29
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

In Ethiopia. 16 October 1941 "a Hurricane and three Gladiators nearly caught one of the CR 42s over Azozo, but it escaped." (Air War East Africa 1940-1941, Sutherland and Canwell, Pen and Sword, 2009.)

That's the last British encounter I have found, if it counts.

If Greece counts as Africa, there were several Gladiator/CR 42 encounters, but that was earlier in 1941.
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Old 5th November 2009, 19:01
alex crawford alex crawford is offline
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alex crawford
Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

Hi,

24th October 1941.

Lt C H Hope in a 3 SAAF Sqn Gladiator shot down a Fiat CR42 near Ambazzo. Last SAAF air combat victory in East Africa.

Source, Springbok Fighter Victory SAAF Fighter Operations 1939-45, Vol 1 East Africa 1940-41 by Michael Shoeman. Published by Freeworld Publications CC, South Africa ISBN 0-958-4388-5-4

Alex
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Old 5th November 2009, 22:37
mars mars is offline
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mars
Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex crawford View Post
Hi,

24th October 1941.

Lt C H Hope in a 3 SAAF Sqn Gladiator shot down a Fiat CR42 near Ambazzo. Last SAAF air combat victory in East Africa.

Source, Springbok Fighter Victory SAAF Fighter Operations 1939-45, Vol 1 East Africa 1940-41 by Michael Shoeman. Published by Freeworld Publications CC, South Africa ISBN 0-958-4388-5-4

Alex
According to Christopher Shores's "Dust clouds in the middle east", that CR 42 was flown by Sottoten Ildebrando Malavolti of the 110th Sq, he was KIA
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Old 6th November 2009, 12:32
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

More details here:
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/commonwealth_hope.htm
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Old 7th November 2009, 19:38
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

Hi guys

Slightly off track, but the last Hurricane to be shot down by an Italian biplane (this might have also been the last RAF machine shot down by a biplane, can't remember for certain) occurred on 26 November 1941, when Flg Off Bill Winsland of 33 Squadron fell to a CR42 of 366 Squadriglia flown by Cap Bernado Serafini.

In the 1980s, with the help of Italian author Nico Malizia, I was able to put Bill in touch with Bernado (who had retired as a General). They arranged to meet in Italy and when Bill and his wife touched down at the provincial airport, they were greeted by a guard of honour and a flypast!! The General still had some influence, obviously. They became good friends. A nice story.

Sadly, both are now gone.

Cheers
Brian
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Old 7th November 2009, 21:17
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

To give due credit to my source, the Malavolti encounter is described but not the RAF fighter type. Hence my omission. Reading earlier in the chapter identifies the Gladiators.
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Old 14th November 2009, 01:39
fatman_bear1 fatman_bear1 is offline
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Re: Last biplane v biplane combat??

markjsheppard
If you read Laurent Rizzotti's post he pointe out that the Biplanes used by the axis in Barbarossa were from german allies not the luftwaffe.

"Later at the start of Barbarossa both sides used biplanes (Finnish, Slovak and Hungarian on the Axis side)."

Fatman
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