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  #41  
Old 26th January 2022, 12:10
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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78. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500210 Yellow 17 of 3./JG 7 with Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110800 White 7 of 9./JG 7 at Fassberg in May 1945. British forces used flags to rope off the Me 262s.


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79. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110800 White 7 still in German markings being prepared for a transfer flight to Lübeck-Blankensee by RAF and Luftwaffe personnel. This photo is dated 26 May 1945.


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80. Wing Commander Warren E. Schrader and Flight Lieutenant Clive Gosling (jet pilots of No. 616 Squadron now at Lübeck-Blankensee) sit on the wing of Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500210 Yellow 17 still in German markings and confer with Luftwaffe and RAF personnel prior to their transfer flights on 27 May.


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81. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500210 Yellow 17 is being fuelled for its flight to Lübeck. Note the hurried painting-over of German markings and the addition of roundels.


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82. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110800 White 7 being worked on immediately prior to its flight. Note that British markings also have been added.


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83. A not uncommon result of a nose gear that did not fully lower. Wing Commander Schrader's Me 262 White 7 is seen at Lübeck-Blankensee. Note the damage to the base of the tailfin indicates that a cable was used to drag the aircraft to the scrap area seen here.
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  #42  
Old 2nd February 2022, 11:44
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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84. Eight Me 262s were surrendered on 6 May 1945 at Schleswig-Land to elements of the RAF Regiment. Seen here l. to r. are Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500443 Yellow 5?; Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 112372 Red 2; Me 262 A-1a (werknummer unknown to me) Red 1; Me 262 B-1a W.Nr. 110165?; Me 262 B-1a/U1 W.Nr. 110306; and Me 262 B-1a/U1 W.Nr. 110305 Red 8. To the right out of camera range were Me 262 B-1a W.Nr 110635 Red 10 and Me 262 B-1a/U1 W.Nr. 111980 Red 12.


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85. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500443 was captured at Schleswig. O'Connell, Me 262 Production Log, (2005), p. 173 says it was originally coded Yellow 5 but repainted by hand to Yellow 6. Its unit is unknown to me. Note that the British markings applied at Schleswig are distinct: unusually large RAF roundels without yellow outer rings and the addition of RAF fin flashes.


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86. A poor quality photo shows the unique markings of W.Nr. 500443, which include the total lack of JG 7 insignia, lack of nose or tail tip colours, the cannon ports surround colours, the white rudder, the unusually small tactical number in yellow on the rear fuselage contrary to 10./NJG 11 markings and the mismatched port engine nacelle fairings. Assigned "U.S.A.1.", it was not taken by Watson's Whizzers. Reported as having been shipped to the UK.
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  #43  
Old 2nd February 2022, 12:01
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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87. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 112372 Red 2 of 10./NJG 11 is seen in German markings at Schleswig. Note the blue/red RVT bands of JG 7 and the painted-out tactical fighter numeral in front of the balkenkreuz. The Red 2 covers the JG 7 wappen.


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88. Robert Forsyth on p. 121 of Jagdgeschwader 7 'Nowotny', (Osprey, 2008), says that on 1 June 1945, Flt. Lt. Pierre Arend flew W.Nr. 112372 from Schleswig to Twente 'where it is believed to have received some repair work.'


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89. On 23 June 1945, Farnborough jet test pilot S/Ldr. Brian Hugh Moloney probably flew Me 262 W.Nr. 112372 Red 2 from Twente via Gilze Rijen, Melsbroek and Manston to RAE Farnborough. It is seen here during its stop-over at Gilze Rijen, with the silhouette of Me 262 B-1a/U1 W.Nr. 111980 Red 12 (damaged on landing 19 June 1945) in the hangar awaiting repairs.
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  #44  
Old 9th February 2022, 12:06
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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90. Me 262 A-1a RAF serial VH509 arrived in crates at Montreal, Canada on 1 September 1946 aboard SS Manchester Shipper. It was sent to RCAF Downsview (Toronto) for reassembly and this view shows the port side of the fuselage on the floor of the hangar.


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91. This starboard view of Me 262 A-1a VH509 on the floor of the Downsview hangar was probably taken in the autumn of 1946. At some time while in Britain this fuselage was oversprayed with a dark colour, even over the the British markings added in Germany and were subsequently partially remarked. However, certain details show through. The blue/red RVT bands of JG 7, the large RAF roundel typical of those applied at Schleswig, the edge of the original RAF fin flash and the original Red 1 outlined in white that was painted over the JG 7 wappen can be seen. If this is AM 52, it was possibly flown by Flight Lieutenant Pierre Arend from Schleswig to Twente and from Twente via Manston to RAE Farnborough in June 1945.


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92. A photo of the reassembled Me 262 A-1a VH509 in the Downsview hangar. Note that only the top surface of the engine nacelles were oversprayed in Britain.


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93. This photograph of the reassembled Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. unknown to me) VH509 was taken at the RCAF Staff College, Toronto, Canada on 12 June 1948. The unique pattern of black and white on the rear of the port engine nacelle matches exactly that of the third aircraft in the line-up at Schleswig that can be seen in a photo (at a different angle from my post #84) found on page 515 of Andreas Zapf's Mosquitos über Berlin, (2018), which is also a Red 1. This is almost certainly the same aircraft.
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  #45  
Old 10th February 2022, 06:42
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David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Jim,

In photos taken at Schleswig, this aircraft reveals the overpainting of a wappen on its nose and the fuselage tailband. Their positions and dimensions point to a machine originally with JG 7. Importantly, all other German national markings remain intact. Over the wappen as painted a small red-coloured / white-outlined number '1'. This is in the same position as "Red 2", the other 10./NJG 11 single seat Me 262. Both “Red 1” and “Red 2” are ex-JG 7 aircraft and no doubt their original markings were painted over when transferred to 10./NJG 11.

In a photo taken of the aircraft as it sat exposed to the elements at CFB Downsview, a large white-coloured '2' is just visible bleeding through the German-applied paint. Its dimensions, and that it was not outlined, point to a machine previously with I./JG 7. While its Werknummer is not known, the camouflage style points to a 112xxx series machine.

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David
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Last edited by David E. Brown; 11th February 2022 at 03:53. Reason: clarification
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  #46  
Old 10th February 2022, 07:29
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Thank you, David. That information is most welcome. I'll look for the '2'.
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  #47  
Old 16th February 2022, 11:39
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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94. Messerschmitt civilian test pilot Ludwig "Willie" Hoffmann of Watson's Whizzers stands on the wing of Me 262 B-1a "165" which was the fourth aircraft in the line-up of Me 262s surrendered at Schleswig. Given British markings, it was designated as "U.S.A.2." and handed over to the Americans. On 19 June 1945, Hoffmann flew it from Schleswig to Twente and then via Beauvechain-Le Culot to Melun-Villaroche in France. (Samuel, American Raiders, (2004), pp. 284-285.)


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95. Photos of Me 262 B-1a "165" being examined by American servicemen on its arrival either at Le Culot or Melun, still in British markings.


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96. At Melun, Me 262 B-1a "165" was dubbed "What was it?" in the American markings of Watson's Whizzers and given the number "101" beneath the horizontal stabilizer. On 3 July 1945 it was flown to Cherbourg-Querqueville for preparation for shipping aboard HMS Reaper to the United States. Note the late production tail light on the rudder.
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  #48  
Old 23rd February 2022, 11:22
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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97. This photo of Me 262 B-1a/U1 "306" of 10./NJG 11 shows it in German markings in its fifth position in the line-up at Schleswig. Note that there is no protruding barrel from the lower gun port and that the auxiliary fuel tanks are missing.


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98. A group photo of British and Luftwaffe personnel at Schleswig in front of "306". Note the RAF roundel and addition of the auxiliary fuel tanks.


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99. This photo shows "306" in British markings. Assigned to the Americans and marked with a hand-painted "U.S.A.3." on the starboard fuselage, it was handed over to Watson's Whizzers. Lt. Bob Strobell flew it from Schleswig to Twente on 19 June 1945. Through pilot error, he landed short hitting a berm in from of the short concrete runway. "I wiped out the entire right side of the airplane." Normally it would have been scrapped, but as it was their only example of a B-1a/U1, they flew in an "entire wing and gear" assembly by C-47 from Lechfeld. (Samuel, American Raiders, pp. 284-5) On 23 June 1945, Strobell flew the repaired "306" from Twente to Melun-Villaroche.

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100. At Melun, Me 262 B-1a/U1 "306" was given American markings and christened "Ole Fruit Cake". The Whizzer's number "999" can be seen beneath the horizontal stabilizer. On 3 July 1945, Strobell flew it from Melun to Cherbourg-Querqueville to be prepared for shipping aboard HMS Reaper to the United States.

Last edited by Karoband; 23rd February 2022 at 12:11.
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  #49  
Old 2nd March 2022, 11:41
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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101. Me 262 B-1a/U1 "305" Red 8 of 10./NJG 11 was the sixth jet in the line-up at Schleswig. Each B-1a/U1 had a different camouflage pattern. "305" is seen here receiving its RAF roundels and fin flashes in May 1945.


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102. This photo shows "305" being refueled during its stop-over at Gilze-Rijen. On 18 May 1945, RAE Farnborough's chief test pilot, W/C. R. J. "Roly" Falk, flew it from Schleswig via Twente to Gilze-Rijen. On the 19th he ferried it via Melsbroek to Manston. It was first designated AM 50 and later given the RAF serial VH519.


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103. This photo is stamp-dated on the back as 28 May 1945 for Air Ministry A.I.2 (Q). Note the late production tail light on the rudder of "305"


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104. In England, "305" was first put to use for conversion training of Farnborough's test pilots who were to ferry German jets back to Britain. German ground crew were brought to England to help with their expertise.


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105. Assigned for radar and tactical evaluation by the Fighter Interception Development Squadron at the Central Fighter Establishment, "305" was transferred from RAE Farnborough to RNAS Ford by W?C. F. S. Gonsalves, ex-c.o. of No. 85 Sqn. RAF, on 6 July 1945. However, he overshot on landing causing minor damage. Parts were flown in from Germany in a Ju 88 and it is seen here after repairs.
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  #50  
Old 9th March 2022, 12:06
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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106. Me 262 B-1a/U1 W.Nr. 110635 Red 10 seen in German markings at Schleswig, likely in May 1945. Note the wire cable.


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107. This photo, likely taken in late May 1945, shows Lt. Cdr. Eric "Winkel" Brown, RN, (fluent in German) sitting in W.Nr. 110635 getting instruction from Oblt. Kurt Welter with Ltn. Jorg Cypionka acting as interpreter.


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108. W.Nr. 110635 was intended for the Americans and "U.S.A.4." was added to the starboard side of the rear fuselage as were British roundels and fin flashes. In the background of this picture is W.Nr. 500443 "U.S.A.1.". Like "U.S.A.1.", W.Nr. 110635 was not taken by Watson's Whizzers. Note the early production tail light on the rudder.


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109. Another view of W.Nr. 110635 in British markings. One source says that a "F/Lt. T. Melhuish" flew this aircraft from Schleswig via Twente, Melsbroek and Manston to RAE Farnborough in late June 1945. So far I have been unable to identify this pilot.
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