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  #91  
Old 18th May 2023, 11:12
RudiS RudiS is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

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Originally Posted by RudiS View Post
As for the pre war losses, so far I have found the following:
Besondere Vorkommnisse (Flugzeugunfälle und Flugzeugabstürze)
17. Dez. 1934 - 15. März 1935 RL 6/112
6. Okt. 1937 - 5. Jan. 1938 RL 6/117
13. Jan. - 18. März 1938 RL 6/119
2. Mai - 15. Juni 1939 RL 6/122
15. Juni - 14. Juli, 05./06. Okt. 1939 RL 6/121

Has anyone found any others?
Nobody? Is the information about the rest of the pre war losses lost?
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  #92  
Old 18th May 2023, 14:14
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

Yes they are.
Junker
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  #93  
Old 18th May 2023, 16:49
RudiS RudiS is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

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Originally Posted by edNorth View Post
No thy are not. Just neglected subject.
Hi Ed,
Can you point out where I can find them?
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  #94  
Old 28th May 2023, 17:14
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

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Originally Posted by John Manrho View Post
I believe it is an illusion to assume the Gen.Qu.Mstr. losses are complete. There could be numerous reasons why it did not end up there, it was of course a clumsy process. The same goes for NVM's. Not all losses were recorded or possible NVM's were lost.
Hello John,

Aircraft losses not listed in GQM returns were undoubtedly there. But are there examples of aircrew losses not listed in GQM Vordruck II and NVM?

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Andrey
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  #95  
Old 28th May 2023, 21:53
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

Andrey
I guess John can provide a few samples. Nonetheless for sure GQ6 list is not complete, and contains omissions and errors. I have identified few such cases, and there is some more evidence for that. This regardless of the loss of 1944 records.
The general problem is lack of records for cross check of the losses.
Same applies to NVMs.
Franek
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  #96  
Old 28th May 2023, 22:47
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

Hello Franek,

I know quite a few examples where reliably known aircraft losses are missing from the GQM returns. But so far I have not seen a single case where a reliably known personal loss is missing from the German documents (I judge this mainly from Soviet data on POW or KIA German pilots). 1944, of course, remains outside the brackets.

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Andrey
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  #97  
Old 29th May 2023, 06:37
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

I can confirm that personel losses in rare cases are missing from the NVM(WASt)
Junker
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  #98  
Old 29th May 2023, 10:24
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

I have found that several losses, mainly in December 1944, were not recorded in a NVM although the pilot had serious injuries and in one case even was KIA.
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  #99  
Old 29th May 2023, 19:53
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

John and Junker, thank you!

And are there similar examples in 1941-43?

Best regards,
Andrey
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  #100  
Old 29th May 2023, 20:44
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

I am not sure, but I would assume 1940-1943 is reasonably complete. I think gaps can be seen from fall of 1944 onwards. Of course everything after February 1945 is more and more a problem.
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