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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Hi
According to the German loss returns, He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 crashed 10 km south west of Isle of Wight. Nonetheless is there any other evidence that allows to corroborate the place of the crash? I am asking because there is a report of an aircraft crashed mid-Channel, with crew and green marker seen. I do not quite find any other aircraft that could have crashed there, so it remains a bit of a mystery to me. I understand that no bodies were recovered nor washed out, and the crew remains missing. TIA Franek |
#2
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
On what date?
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#3
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
26 September 1940.
Missing crew: Oblt Hans-Hermann Graf von Schweinitz Uffz Heinrich Widmann Uffz Werner Schob Gefr Erich Wastian Gefr Richard Helfer. Regards Leo |
#4
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Luftflotte 3 records just state one aircraft was missing so must have come down in the sea
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#5
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Quote:
There are two places indicated, 5-6 miles South of Isle of Wight, where a smoking He 111 was seen to dive into the sea, and 30 miles South of Isle of Wight, were a crew was seen next to a wreck and dispersing a green marker. Obviously, only one of those was correct. I wonder if there is any additional evidence that would allow to identify the correct crash site. |
#6
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
True regards the ZG 26 aircraft but I did not mention them as you were asking about the He 111. Trouble is, as you know well, RAF squadrons claimed an astounding 16 He 111s destroyed, 2 probables and 2 damaged that afternoon
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#7
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
That is true, and to add to confusion, some He 111s/Ju 88s were apparently confused with Me 110s/Do 17s and vice versa. Nonetheless quite a number of claims could be grouped and matched to particular circumstances. Eg. the He 111 claimed downed 5 miles South IoW was reported to smoke from both engines and dive to sea, and there is a number of nearly identical reports.
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#8
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Franek: Too true. An unbelievable example of overclaiming-9 Bf 109s destroyed, 5 probables and one damaged; Ju 88 destroyed; 2 Do 17s destroyed, 7 damaged, one probable; 5 Bf 110s destroyed and 6 damaged (or thereabouts). Attack was by 18 He 111s from I./KG 55, 19 from II./KG 55, 13 Bf 110s from Erprobungsgruppe 210 with an escort of 48 Bf 110s from ZG 26, 38 Bf 109s from JG 2 and 6 Bf 109s from 5./JG 53. German claims were not much better
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#9
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Chris
I have a problem with establishing the actual number of aircraft claimed and credited victories. It seems there was a lot of confusion in regard of types encountered, and eg. for some reason few claims of No 303 Sqn for Do 215s were changed at some point for He 111s - why? Also, it looks some of the claims were then reasessed and downgraded. As far as I can work out of the mess, it looks the Me 110 at Freshwater was claimed by at least 5 pilots, the one at Newport - 6, and the He 111 just off the IoW - 7 pilots. Few reports of Nos 152 and 609 Sqns are missing, so the numbers might be higher. It also looks that at least two of own fighters went down in blue on blue. This reduces the German accuracy significantly, as it leaves 4 for 20 claimed. Of course, assuming that the pilots correctly identified their victims. I have found one evident case another day, when a pilot shot down one aircraft but lost it from sight, and then reported the demise of another as a result of his fire. So, we can not ever be sure. I would say that a fair part of the overclaim in the BoB was caused by wrong classification of victories, several being credited as individual even if claimed as shared. In this case I am intrigued by the claim of green marker. While I am aware of few pilots providing fake claims, I have no reason to believe it was the case, and the detail seems too unusual to be an invention of the pilot. It would mean that the aircraft attacked off IoW somehow made to France, as it looks it was not the same as the one finished mid-Channel. But, some evidence would be most welcome. |
#10
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Re: Loss of He 111 H-2 W.Nr. 5314 G1+GK of 2./KG 55 - place
Franek: Another agreement from me. For example 609 initially claimed:
Dundas 109 dest, 215 dam Bisdee 111 prob Ogilvie 111 dam Darley Do prob, Do dam Agazarian 109 dest, 2 Do dam Curchin 111 dest Forshaw Do 215 dam The only pilot to see a He 111 crash was Curchin who recorded it "diving in to the sea 30 miles from the coast" |
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