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  #1  
Old 24th July 2021, 18:10
Alain57 Alain57 is offline
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Exclamation Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Goodafternoon ,

Would someone check out once if the following info is correct.

11/05/1940
2.(F) A.Gr. 123 F
Tirlemont Belgium
Fighterdamage Moranes, GC II/2
Do 17 P
Uffz.Klaas, Willi WIA
Oblt. Schaezler, Dietrich Frhr.v. bordfunker WIA
Ofw. Felgenhauer bordfunker
Recce Maastricht - Nnamur

Greetings
Alain57
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  #2  
Old 25th July 2021, 08:10
uschu4711 uschu4711 is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hi,

from « Laatste escadrilles van 40 » van Jean Delae:

"11 mei 1940
In de vroege morgen weerklinkt er plots een hevig geronk. Uit vrees voor bombardementen is iedereen vlug op de been. Verschillende vliegtuigen overvliegen Lonzée. Een Do17 stormt voorbij, achtervolgd door 5 Moranes.. De vliegtuigen verdwijnen. Nadien verneemt men dat het Duitse toestel een noodlanding gemaakt heeft op het grondgebied van St.Denis-Bovesse. "

Sint Denis Bovesse is 40km from Tienen/Tirlemont
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  #3  
Old 25th July 2021, 14:50
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hello,
this was OLtn.von Schaezler second mission that day. By the first in the early morning 3 Morane 406 attackt the Do 17P and with more then 150 Machinegun & Cannon hit they where able to came home! At the sencond they also meet Morane 406 (nine at all) and the Do 17P again was hit by more then 325 Hits in the wings and fuselage. BF Uffz. Klaas was wounded 3 time but was able to open returnfire until they crossed the own lines.
Sadly OLtn. von Schaezler and his crew was KIA in Do 17P 4U+GK on 10. June 1940 when they attack french troops at an low lewel bombing run!
h.
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  #4  
Old 25th July 2021, 18:36
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

SCHAEZLER, Dietrich, Freiherr von. 01.04.37 Ofhr., Aufkl.Gr. 125, promo to Lt.(RDA 01.04.36). 01.07.39 Oblt., trf from Aufkl.St.(F) A/88 to Aufkl.Gr. 123. 01.09.39 Oblt., Nachr.Offz. 2.(F)/Aufkl./Gr. 123. 11.05.40 Oblt. in 2.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 123, WIA - Do 17 P shot up by Moranes of GC II/2 during recon Maastricht and Namur. 07.06.40 Oblt., 2.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 123 KIA - Do 17 P (4U+GK) lost to AA over France [Version #2: shot down by GC II/4 E of Thiescourt, S of Lassigny, SW of Soissons].

He was the Staffel Nachrichtenoffizier. That's why he was flying on 11 May as the Bordfunker.

L.
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  #5  
Old 26th July 2021, 09:15
Alain57 Alain57 is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Thank you all for the help

Regards
Alai57
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  #6  
Old 27th July 2021, 13:42
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hi,

there is a lot of uncertainty around these 2.(F)/123 losses.

To start, the data in Alain's first post are correct, but unfortunately have no timing.

Next, it is almost certain that 3 Moranes of GC II/2 attacked a Do17 recon plane west of Namur during the early morning.

But there is no known crash at St Denis-Bovesse as mentioned in post #2.

As most sources (e.g. Gillet) confirm the aircraft of Schaezler and crew returned damaged and assume the wounded crew members were on this flight:

May 11: 2.(F)/123 Dornier Do17P. Returned damaged from attack by Cne Alexandre, A/C Berland and Sgt Parent of GC II/2 during reconnaissance sortie between Namur, Charleroi, Bruxelles and Tirlemont, 5.10 a.m. Staffel Nachrichtenoffizier BO Oberlt Freiherr Dietrich von Schaezler and FF Uffz Willi Klaas both wounded. BF Oberfw Felgenhauer unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.
On return the aircraft counted 150 impacts of the Moranes 20mm canon and machine guns.

There was a second loss that same day:

May 11: 2.(F)/123 Dornier Do17P-1. Attacked by F/O Derek Allen, P/O Paddy Hemingway and P/O Patrick Woods-Scaven of No. 85 Squadron over Doenrade, between Sittard and Maastricht, and forced-landed at ‘t Rooth, near Schinnen, Netherlands, 1.00 p.m. BO Lt Heinz Brosch and FF Fw Hermann Layher both wounded, BF Fw [ ] Steiner believed unhurt. Aircraft 4U+HK a 100% write-off.

This contradicts with the short summary of Hans in post #3, which suggests that Schaezler and crew, after having returned with serious damage after the first flight, would almost immediately make a second flight, where they were attacked again. I personally take it as very unlikely that in the first flight no crew member was wounded and that the crew would then immediately fly again. Also because there no unmatched claims of encounters between 9 Moranes (or Hurricanes) with a Do17. So I still think there must be some sort of mix-up and Schaezler & crew only flew one mission. Until proven wrong of course, e.g. with detailed flight times.

Regards, Pieter
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  #7  
Old 27th July 2021, 18:52
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hello,
it was normal flying two misson at one day (my late father told me they fly more then four mission a day at the russian front during the first days in Russia). OLtn. v. Schaezler has two mission on 10.Mai 1940, Target Maastricht/Brüssel. The same one day later, the Pilot on the afternoonmission was Feldwebel Lang!
h.
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  #8  
Old 28th July 2021, 14:34
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hi Hans,

you are of course correct that crews regularly flew multiple missions per day. I only wondered whether a crew that came back seriously mauled would immediately be sent out again. But apparently they did!

I'm now still struggling with the crews and who got wounded when.
The loss report from post #1 says crew
FF Klaas (WIA) BF Schaezler (WIA) BO? Felgenhauer (unhurt)
(I understand from Larry that Schaezler was flying as the BF, which now makes me assume Felgenhauer was the BO.)

You say that on the second flight the crew was
FF Lang, BF Schaezler, BO? (again Felgenhauer, since he was not wounded?)

The strange thing is that, if the above is correct, Schaezler flew again although wounded during the first flight. Can you confirm? Alternatively he was wounded during the second flight, but then I don't understand the loss report from post #1.

Regards, Pieter
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  #9  
Old 28th July 2021, 18:45
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Hello,

Crew:

FF Ofw. Felgenhauer

BF OLtn.Fhr. von Schaetzler

BS Uffz. Klass

They where unhurt on the first mission. In the afternoon the second misson was flown with an new Do 17P and and an new Pilot Feldwebel Lang. Uffz. Klass was wounded (hat, hands, crest), rest of crew unhurt but the plan was hit by over 325 bullets or fragments from Cannon Shells.

Ofw. Felgenhauer again has an misson, this time with Hptm. v Oberitz as Observer and Uffz. Zieslack as Gunner. In the aera of Löwen they was attacked by 8 Morane and 3 Gladiator but Ofw.Felgenhauer was able to escape. The Do 17P was 28 Hits by MG and 20mm Cannon-fire.
h.
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  #10  
Old 29th July 2021, 00:26
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: Do-17 2.(F) A.Gr 123 crash may 11 1940 in Belgium

Thanks a lot, that finally settles it!

I only think there is some confusion with the order of the flights.
If Felgenhauer was in the a/c attacked by Gladiators, that must have been at 5.50 a.m.
He can then not have been the FF of the first flight of Schaezler, which was attacked by the three Moranes at 5.00.
So my interpretation as to the flights of Schaezler would be:
- 1st flight around 5.00 a.m. Lang-Schaezler-Klaas, damaged, no wounded
- 2nd flight around 6.15 p.m. Felgenhauer-Schaezler-Klaas, 2 WIA

Cheers, Pieter
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