Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28th June 2006, 20:22
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,828
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
A little off topic but..

Hi,

A little off topic but..

Flight 19 aircraft and the rescue aircraft that were all lost.

Avengers from Fort Lauderdale, how were the marked ? Squadron/flight markings what were they ?

Also the Martin Mariner (PBM-5) that was also lost, which Squadron/flight did she belong to and what markings did she wear ?

Are there any photos that show the same or simular marking as worn by these aircraft ? All that I have seen so far are colour profiles and just wonder where the artist got the info if not from photos.

Thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28th June 2006, 21:54
edwest edwest is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,612
edwest is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: A little off topic but..

Here you are Alex:


http://www.kilroywashere.org/007-Pag...9-Fabrice.html



Ed
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28th June 2006, 22:52
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: A little off topic but..

I have somewhere in the PC image of the unit. They are all blue but the leader plane FT-28.
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29th June 2006, 15:18
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,828
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: A little off topic but..

Thank you Ed and Pilot,

Most welcome info.

The serial numbers given in the link differ somwhat to the ones given in Joe Baugher's lists.

From that and the other site i had with the profiles I have the folowing

Taylor - TBM-3 - 23307 - "F-T 28"
Bossi - TBM-1c - 45714 - "F-T 3"
Powers - TBM-1c - 46094 - "F-T 36"
Gerber - TBM-1c - 46325 - "F-T 81"
Stivers - TBM1c - 73209 - "F-T 117"

Joe gives the Mariner as PBM-5 59225.

Why the difference on the serial numbers ?
And what more on the Mariner ?

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29th June 2006, 15:27
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,828
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: A little off topic but..

Here is what I had...


Flight 19
At about 2:10 p.m. on the afternoon of 5 December 1945, Flight 19, consisting of five TBM Avenger Torpedo Bombers departed from the U. S. Naval Air Station, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on an authorized advanced over water navigational training flight. In charge of the flight was a senior qualified flight instructor Lieutenant Charles Carroll Taylor, piloting FT-28. In first moment he refuse to fly because planes did not had clock. The other planes were piloted by qualified pilots with between 350 and 400 hours flight time of which at least 55 was in TBM Avenger type aircraft. The weather over the area covered by the track of the navigational problem consisted of scattered rain showers with a ceiling of 2500 feet within the showers and unlimited outside the showers, visibility of 6-8 miles in the showers, 10-12 otherwise. Surface winds were 20 knots with gusts to 31 knots. The sea was moderate to rough. The general weather conditions were considered average for training flights of this nature except within showers.

A radio message intercepted at about 4 p.m. was the first indication that Flight 19 had a problem. This message, believed to be between the leader on Flight 19 and another pilot in the same flight, indicated that the instructor was uncertain of his position and the direction of the Florida coast. The aircraft also were experiencing malfunction of their compasses. Attempts to establish communications on the training frequency were unsatisfactory due to interference from Cuba broadcasting stations, static, and atmospheric conditions. All radio contact was lost before the exact nature of the trouble or the location of the flight could be determined. Indications are that the flight became lost somewhere east of the Florida peninsula and was unable to determine a course to return to their base. The flight was never heard from again and no trace of the planes were ever found. It is assumed that they made forced landings at sea, in darkness somewhere east of the Florida peninsula, possibly after running out of gas. Landing on the rough sea could be fatal and even if the crew could survive water was too cold and they could died of cold. It is known that the fuel carried by the aircraft would have been completely exhausted by 8 p.m. It is also possible that some unexpected and unforeseen development of weather conditions may have intervened although there is no evidence of freak storms in the area at the time.

All available facilities in the immediate area were used in an effort to locate the missing aircraft and help them return to base. These efforts were not successful. No trace of the aircraft was ever found even though an extensive search operation was conducted until the evening of 10 December 1945, when weather conditions deteriorated to the point where further efforts became unduly hazardous. Sufficient aircraft and surface vessels were utilized to satisfactorily cover those areas in which survivors of Flight 19 could be presumed to be located.

One of two search aircraft was lost during the operation. A PBM patrol plane which was launched at approximately 7:30 p.m., 5 December 1945, to search for the missing TBM's. This aircraft was never seen nor heard from after take-off. Based upon a report from a merchant ship off Fort Lauderdale which sighted a "burst of flame, apparently an explosion, and passed through on oil slick at a time and place which matched the presumed location of the PBM, it is believed this aircraft exploded at sea and sank at approximately 28.59 N; 80.25 W. One of ship which was on the place of accident found oil traces on surface.



FT- 3 TBM-1C BuNo 45714 piloted by Navy Ensign Joseph Tipton Bossi, 20 years old, he had 373.4 hours flight time, 65.9 in Avengers. Gunner was 19 year old Hermann Arthur Thelander, seaman 1st class and radioman was Burt Edward Baluk Jr., also 19 years old and a seaman 1sc.
[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/Flight%2019_files/Filesflight19-1.jpg[/IMG]
FT-28 was a TBM-3 ; BuNo 23307 piloted by the Flight Leader, Navy Lieutenant Charles Carroll Taylor. War veteran, carrier on USS Hancock. He had 2.509,3 flying hours of those 616 on Avengers. In combat spent 61 hours. He was 28 years old. Gunner was Aviation Ordnance Man 3rd class George Francis Devlin Jr. Aviation Radioman 3rd class Walter Reed Parpart was the radioman.
[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/Flight%2019_files/Filesflight19-2.jpg[/IMG]
FT- 36 was a TBM-1E, BuNo was 46094 piloted by Marine Captain Edward Joseph Powers, Jr. He had 344.9 flying hours of those 62.2 on Avengers. He was 26 years old. Staff sergeant Howell Orrin Thompson, LEFT, was Powers' gunner. Radioman was Staff sergeant, George Richard Paonessa.

[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/Flight%2019_files/Filesflight19-3.jpg[/IMG]
FT- 81 was a TBM-1C, BuNo was 46325 piloted by Marine 2nd Lieutenant Forrest James Gerber. He was 24 years old and had total of 360.6 flying hours of those 61.8 in Avengers. Gunner was Lanky Pfc. William Earl Lightfoot. His brother disappeared over France in 1944. Plane did not had radioman as well he was late to flight.
[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/Flight%2019_files/Filesflight19-4.jpg[/IMG]
FT-117 was TBM-1C BuNo was 73209 piloted by Marine Captain George William Stivers Jr. He was graduated U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis in 1942. Credited three times for actions for Guadalcanal and Tarawa. He was 25 years old and had 374.7 flight hours of those 57.9 on Avengers. Gunner was veteran from Guadalcanal, Bougaiville and Tarawa Seasoned Marine sergeant, Robert Francis Gallivan. Radioman was 19 years old Pvt. Robert Peter "Yo Yo" Gruebel.
[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/Flight%2019_files/Filesflight19-5.jpg[/IMG]


Based on various published materialText and color profiles: Srecko Bradic
Discuss topic onForum


Alex
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29th June 2006, 17:06
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: A little off topic but..

Dear Alex,

I am not happy to see my web site copy/paste here but never mind. Why don't you tell me that you find there. All right- I will try to search all of the CD I have and see data. But I have relased all of this in 1999 and hardly I can remember all I have in this moment. More to this many of data from old 486 PC had failed including of my first web site. But I can remember that this data I have supply from the official US Navy.
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29th June 2006, 17:46
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: A little off topic but..

Here it is one image but still looking for the others. Truth is that not much of images are available but there was a number of testimony of the serviceman and complete info could be made. Also many of family are still alive with some of the archive material related to the missing airmen.







Note- if anybody recognize this image as his property please let me know and I will add credit or remove from the topic on request.
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29th June 2006, 18:30
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,828
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: A little off topic but..

My Humble Apologies Pilot

I had not connected you with the info on the site I found.

And did not mean to offend anyone.

Thank you for pointing out the error in my ways.

Again , my apologies.

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29th June 2006, 20:15
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: A little off topic but..

No problem Alex- I feel that you did not mean anything bad. Anyway material from my web site is deispersed onfrom USA to Japan. On the page you have contact and forum so everybody could ask. Glad you like this topic. I will try again to search data stored on my CD and point you where to search. I know that the is association bermuda-triangle.org but somethng more have to be. Just a little wait.
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thunderbolts and Mustangs versus the Jagdwaffe (split topic) Ruy Horta Allied and Soviet Air Forces 98 9th August 2007 17:22
Off topic but need help on a WW I Tank Problem Larry Hickey Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 8th June 2006 02:44
Off topic - but more likely to get timely response Jim P. Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 25th April 2006 17:47
Off Topic - But Great photos B-2 Bomber kimballbob Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 16th January 2006 02:01
VERY OFF TOPIC, but this you need to see! Ruy Horta Off Topic 3 14th March 2005 10:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net