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  #11  
Old 17th January 2019, 11:21
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Funny to have to write the same comments on different threads.
What means the sentence #3 "Last museum curator did look everywhere outside and inside the machine at "our" request ... Nothing." for you?
Principaly the word "inside" ...


I have a full photo album of inside .. and they look when they took the pictures at my request.
Nothing.
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  #12  
Old 17th January 2019, 11:51
stefaan stefaan is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Hi.
Will see if I can organise a look
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  #13  
Old 17th January 2019, 22:22
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Now, these details vary but I have some info from Black-Six, 10639. Many of the smaller parts like Flaps or even U/C legs often have plates with the part number (Gerate Nr) and item serial number (Werke Nr) but not the aircraft Nr. The 109 major parts with A/C serial number are, Plate front left side below windshield, small triangular plate on rear RHS of fuselage near the lifting/jacking tube, an ID plate in the area of the spar carry-through structure under the cockpit, wing ID plate on the rib 1 of each wing. Now, there may also be many other places where the A/C serial number has been simply stamped at the edge of a panel such as a cowling, the wing fillet panels or on other minor parts.
Good luck with an ID! The South African Museum made a replica kit of the sand filter from that cowling for us to use on Black-Six. It was a great job and I fitted it on Black-Six!
Cheers
SM
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  #14  
Old 21st January 2019, 19:34
taitbb taitbb is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

If it still has it...the F/Early G tail wheel well may/should contain the werkno. It would have to be removed from the tail cone by screws to check.
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  #15  
Old 21st January 2019, 19:47
stefaan stefaan is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Hi.
I will certainly have it checked.
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  #16  
Old 21st January 2019, 20:51
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Quote:
Originally Posted by taitbb View Post
If it still has it...the F/Early G tail wheel well may/should contain the werkno. It would have to be removed from the tail cone by screws to check.
Yes, although it might be possible to explore with a good remote camera or endoscope.
It is surprising how difficult it can be to find the ID plates on an airframe. Few are visible with the aircraft assembled. Another interesting fact with the original Black-Six, Wrk Nr 10639 was that it has different wings. From memory, the right wing is 10566 and the left is 10638! There is little doubt that the wings were swopped in Africa due to damage and the need to generate a serviceable aircraft. Can anyone say if they know the fate of 10566 and 10638 and any pics? Cheers

SM
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  #17  
Old 26th January 2019, 16:25
stefaan stefaan is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Hi Guys.
Got the plate on the inside of the rear fuselage on the right side above the tailwheel. Looks like Arado built. Any info from this?? can only be the W.Nr.
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Last edited by stefaan; 19th July 2020 at 15:59.
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  #18  
Old 26th January 2019, 22:08
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Hi Stefaan!
Great! An interesting ID plate. The rear structure with the tailwheel recess is called the "Leitwerkstrager". This is listed in the Bf109F partslist under the "Baugruppe, 109.103-01" . Interestingly, the title on the plate refers to the fact that the part is a BFW item but, obviously the component was made/assembled by Arado.
The top line seems to read BF 109 F41, which is a little curious.
The second line seems to read 11/1000 which I do not think is a construction number for the aircraft, more likely a simple serial number from a production contract, as in, 11th out of 1000.
Obviously, just my thoughts.
Cheers

SM
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  #19  
Old 28th January 2019, 11:27
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

I have researched the Bf109F Ersatzteilliste a little more with respect to the internal ID plate in the Leitwerkstrager photo posted by Stefaan, particularly the BF 109 F41. The "BF 109" ID is standard and the spaced F is expected. However, the 41 might seem unusual on a 109F-2.
The Bf109 major sub-assemblies seem to have been identified with simple manufacture production codes. These are different to the Baugruppen and Ersatzteil numbers which are the method of listing individual parts in the parts book. No, what we talking about with the "production codes" (my term, I have not found a definition for them although I suspect that they are "Konstruktionsgruppen" ) are numbers that relate to a production standard. For example, in the 109F Ersatzteilliste we find in the headings, numbers like K10 and K100 for different fuselages and K50 for left wing, K51 for right wing.
The explaination is not comprehensive and most sub assemblies are not listed in the ersatzteilliste in this way. However, I think that there is good evidence that the Leitwerkstrager for the Bf109F was Konstruktiongruppe 41 and, that ID plate shows this. Cheers

SM

Last edited by schwarze-man; 28th January 2019 at 12:45.
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  #20  
Old 29th January 2019, 01:17
taitbb taitbb is offline
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Re: Bf 109 F-2 Trop South Africa War Museum

Hi Stefaan. Does you machine still have this part? It is inside the tail cone....sort of a mud cover to prevent the insides getting all gummed up.

On this one, the werkno is stamped just inside.
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