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Old 29th October 2019, 11:12
keith A keith A is offline
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Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

I have often wondered why a single Tony is mentioned among a group of Zekes, Tojos or Oscars, especially in attacks on the BPF in 1945. Is it not more probable that the "Tony" is in fact a Judy, with a fighter escort.

Likewise are the "Kates" encountered in 1945 more likelt to be "Jills"

regards

Keith
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Old 29th October 2019, 16:26
SteveR SteveR is offline
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Re: Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

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Originally Posted by keith A View Post
I have often wondered why a single Tony is mentioned among a group of Zekes, Tojos or Oscars, especially in attacks on the BPF in 1945. Is it not more probable that the "Tony" is in fact a Judy, with a fighter escort.

Likewise are the "Kates" encountered in 1945 more likelt to be "Jills"

regards

Keith
It's been some years since I was looking into this, so from memory...

Tokkotai aircraft sent against the BPF mostly (if not completely) originated from Formosa, staging up through the Sakishima Islands. Most were JNAF but a few were JAAF (I recall one specific incident in which Sonias were sent against the BPF without success) so a Tony is a possibility. Another aircraft type that may have been misidentified is the C6N Myrt, which was used to guide the tokkotai and report on results (what the BPF called "Gestapo" aircraft). A Myrt from 762 Kokutai was definitely present during the attack on Formidable on 4 May for example.

Kates were most definitely used as kamikazes during the Okinawa operations as well as Judys. Can't remember offhand if any Kates were sent against the BPF though.
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Old 29th October 2019, 17:16
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

I expect the claims on 12 April were Judies. Most of the claims later in the day were for Zekes, and therefore a Navy aircraft feeds my hypothesis but as you say it is possible a single Tony was among a group of Kamikaze. I think my original thought derived from a claim by an Australian Spitfire pilot on the Darwin Raids in 1943.

A Myrt would be a reasonable misidentification for a Jill or a radial-engine Judy or a Kate...

I wonder if the Oscars claimed may have been "Hamps"?

regards

Keith
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Old 29th October 2019, 18:02
SteveR SteveR is offline
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Re: Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

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Originally Posted by keith A View Post
I think my original thought derived from a claim by an Australian Spitfire pilot on the Darwin Raids in 1943.
Yup, lots of misidentifications by both sides during that campaign!

I don't think any Hamps were used for kamikaze attacks during the Okinawa campaign. There weren't any left by then...

Oscars are a definite possibility for 12 April. Quite a few were thrown against the Radar Picket Stations around Okinawa that day; some Oscars also sortied from Formosa that day, presumably to attack the BPF, though if memory serves none got through to the BPF.

A6M2s are also a definite possibility. Some Franks were sent on tokkotai missions that day as well, though again I think they all went after the Radar Picket Stations.

I do remember that a Ki.46 Dinah was shot down on the morning of 12 April somewhere near the BPF though I don't remember which squadron got the victory.
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Old 30th October 2019, 10:24
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

Cheers Steve
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Old 30th October 2019, 16:07
SteveR SteveR is offline
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Re: Tonies or Judies attacking the BPF

From notes I took 10+ years ago (and unfortunately I didn't write down the source at the time):

Two units flying Oscars out of Formosa on kamikaze sorties 12 April 1945:

Dai 20 Shinbu-tai
Dai 43 Shinbu-tai

IIRC they each sent 3 Oscars, presumably against the BPF. None returned, no hits credited.
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