French DB-7 losses 1940 Campaign

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Good morning to all.

It is known that some 64 Douglas DB-7 were delivered to the Armée de L'Air and saw action from May up to June 1940.

A source says that 14 of those célules (cells) were shot down or destroyed during the French Campaign.

I tried to find out their serial numbers at Joe Baugher's site but got no joy.

Is it known the serial numbers (factory number 39-XXXX) of those 14 machines and their fates?

I only know the loss recorded onto a previous thread on this Forum, of a DB-7 (nº31) from GB II/19 on the 5th June 1940.

A.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The 14 losses are the ones listed in the book "Ils étaient là":
22 May: GB II/19 lost n°29 to fighters and n°23 to Flak
24 May: GB II/19 lost n°39 to fighters
29 May: GB I/19 lost n°20 to Flak
31 May: GB I/19 lost n°32, 42 and 46 to fighters, GB II/19 lost n°5 to fighters
5 June: GB I/19 lost n°31 to fighters
7 June: GB I/19 lost n°33 to Flak
8 June: GB II/19 lost n°26 to Flak
10 June: GB I/19 lost n°41 to fighters
13 June: GB I/19 lost n°10 to fighters, GB II/19 lost n°35 to fighters

The book "Battle of France Then and Now" adds a 15th loss:
13 June: n°43 of I/19 force-landed during a bombing sortie and destroyed by crew

No DB-7 was lost in accident in France during the campaign or before, but there were four accidents in North Africa:
9 Mar 1940: n°6 from Escadrille d'Expérimentation Douglas at Casablanca
18 Apr 1940: n°23 from GB II/19 at Ouled Ziane, Morroco
19 May 1940: n°36 from Groupement de Bombardement N°.2 at Médouina, Morroco
19 May 1940: n°52 from GB II/61 at Médouina, Morroco

I have no idea if any of the four aircraft below was damaged enough to be written off. Apparently nobody was killed in these incidents.

As for linking French serials to US serials, I have nothing in my sources.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

LAURENT,

My gratitude for your kind help and information.

I do have a photograph of one of those DB-7, but with no number on the rudder...it seems the rudder was riddled by Flak or fighters...this machine belly landed, and seems to have been blown up by its crew.

Now I will try to sort out which may be my candidate...

You gave me trully a "NORTH" to follow, Laurent...My gratitude...After posting I also found some details here: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.p...uglas-db-7-b3/

I shall put the image acquired very soon.

My gratitude

A.

[Zoran Petek]

Hello all,
This is an old list compiled from various sources, so You may compare with the one above.

9 EE 13.3.40.; GB II/19 30.4.40. Accident, Damville, France, May 25th 1940.
10 GB I/19 1.5.40. Damaged in battle with the Bf 110 and force landed on June 13, Lissay-Lochy.
20 GB I/19 2.5.40. Hit by flak, Damville, May 29th 40th.
23 Marked U-238 under wings. EE 1.4.40 GB II/19 13.5.40. Hit by flak in mission against German columns, force landed, Evreux, 10.5.40pm.
26 Marked U-241. GB II/19 2.5.40. Shot down by flak at Soissons 6th or 8th June 1940.
28 EE 2.4.40 GB I/19 5.4.40. 3e escadrille GB II/19, Cazaux 18.5.40. Participated in the first mission against the German columns, Cambrai, 22.5.40. Damville at the end of May 1940. GB I/19, Africa, 22.6.40. GB II/52 on Allied side 1943. Crashed in Algeria on 25.11.43.
29 GB II/19 11.4.40. Shot down on a mission against German columns, Cambrai, May 22nd, 1940.
31 GB I/19 13.4.40. Shot down by a Bf 110 west of Rouen on 5.6.40.
32 GB I/19 9.4.40. Groupement 2. Shot down in an air combat, Le Quesnel, 31.5.40.
33 GB I/19 13.4.40. Shot down by flak, St. Mard/Roye, 7.6.40.
35 GB II/19 15.4.40. Shot down by Bf 109E of I/JG 27, Montmirail, 13.6.40.
37 GB II/19 13.4.40. Looks that it was destroyed on May 24th (25?) and captured.
39 GB II/19 6.5.40. Shot down at Amiens/Essars by Bf 109, May 17, 24.5.40.
41 GB I/19 6.5.40. Shot down by Bf 109, Rethel, 10.6.40.
42 GB I/19 16.5.40. Damaged in combat 31.5.40. Captured by the Germans, as confirmed by color photographs. Apparently later in the Vichy AF, at the end of the 1940; to Tunisia El Aouina in GB I/19.
43 GB I/19 12.5.40. On return from the mission shot down Hs 126 on May 29, 1940, but was also shot down by a Bf 110 at Provins on June 13th.
46 GB I/19 16.5.40. Groupement 2. Downed, Bray-sur-Somme, 31.5.40.
52 GB II/61 20.5.40. Crashed, Mediouna, 22.5.40. Survived Operation Torch. IN GB I/19 XII.42. Crashed 1.9.43.
58 GB II/61 30.5.40. Destroyed in the crash, Bourges, June 13th.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

ZORAN,

Thank you VERY MUCH for your list and additional information.

This IS the photo I mentioned. It seems for me that, apparently the crew burned the machine, which leads me to believe this is the DB-7 number 43, from GB I/19 shot down on the 13th June 1940. Your information about the place where the machine crashed helped me quite a lot. Firstly I did not know this medieval town..and I see that next time I go to France, I shall pass to visit this place. Secondly, the terrain is very very flat nearby the town...which looks similar to the terrain on the photograph I acquired.

Sadly we DO NOT have the right side of the rudder, where the numero was painted, visible on the photograph...so, no 100% positive identification...neither a date or place written behind the photo.

Thank you immensely for your contribution, which enhanced the places where some of the machines crashed.

Adriano S. Baumgartner

[Adriano Baumgartner]

We can see that the right engine was torn-off from its mounting and that the propellers tips are bent, which give us the indication that the machine was with power (RPM), when contact with the ground ocurred.

I am not totally sure if the crew put fire onto the cockpit...the machine could have been in fire near the right nacelle, which spread to the fuselage (it is a theory)...or, indeed the crew suceeded on the belly landing and, following orders, set fire to the machine from the cockpit (trying to destroy all instruments and bombing devices, etc.); which is also a theory from what I see.

The terrain is very very flat and looks like very much (I was just looking on Google Maps and Google) that of the arounds of PROVIN.

Adriano

[Stig Jarlevik]

Adriano

The early Douglas DB-7s are difficult to trace 100%
What is known is that the French ordered 100 DB-7 on 18 Feb 1939 (Douglas c/n 431 - 530 probably issued in order)
All these 100 aircraft are supposed to have reached France (or North Africa) carrying No 1 to No 100 and Armée de l'Air 'Matricule Militaire' U-216 to U-315.
These French MM numbers were painted on already in USA and there is no reason to assume Douglas would have painted them in any haphazard way so aircraft No 1 aka U-216 was most likely c/n 431 and so on.

From here sources differ. Did the French get all those 100 before the Armistice? Some say yes others say no. Me? I don't know....only that sources seems very incomplete.

However none of these aircraft had anything to do with the USAAC so you will not find any USAAC serials for these ones.

Cheers
Stig

[Leendert]

Adriano,
Perhaps this website is (also) helpful: https://www.abcdlist.nl/douglas_longbeach_01.html

French order starts at c/n 2288 here...

Regards,
Leendert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Leendert

Adriano,
Perhaps this website is (also) helpful: https://www.abcdlist.nl/douglas_longbeach_01.html

French order starts at c/n 2288 here...

Regards,
Leendert

Yes, that was for the French second order of 170 aircraft.
Some say a few of these also reached France or North Africa, but.....

Cheers
Stig

[Bertrand H]

Close up of this Douglas DB-3

Attachment 20412

If it is the n°10 on 13 june this a/c of GB 1/19 have received flak after/before/during (?) bombing NW of Montmirail.

The crew (with Cne Couilleau as pilot and cdt 1ère escadrille) return after 1:40 of flight. I suppose they crash landed on their a/f at Lissay

Bertrand