Do 17P of 3.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 14 or 4.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 14

[Peter Cook]

I am trying to resolve the correct unit for a Do 17P that was lost on 3 August 1940, along with the crew of Oblt Völkel, Oblt Schäfer, and Fw Foppe. Mason, BoB Then and Now, and Balss lost listings for this date all show the Do17P belonging to 3.(F)/14 but, as far as I am aware, there was no such unit. The 3rd staffel of Aufkl.Gr.14 was 3.(H)/14, a short-range unit operating the Hs 126. The deZeng and Stankey biography entries in the Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries list Völkel and Schäfer under 3.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 14, with both killed on 3 August. But the only Aufkl.Gr. 14 aircraft listed as lost on this date is reported in the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung as '1 Do 17 of 4.(F)/14 missing'. Were Völkel and Schäfer part of 3.(H) but assigned to 4.(F) for this mission, or did 3.(H) also operate the Do 17P?

[Chris Goss]

4./14 is what I have

[Larry deZeng]

3.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 14 (2d Formation)
Code: (5F + )
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Campaign West - Attack on France and the Low Countries. (May 40 - May 41)
10.5.40: Eifel area along the Belgian border south of Aachen under Koluft AOK 4 with Hs 126s for the attack into France this date, and assigned to support 7. Panzer-Division across Belgium to the Somme River between St.-Quentin and Abbeville in northeast France.
10.5.40: Hs 126 shot down by a French fighter - no details.
11.5.40: Hs 126 shot down by a Morane 406 over Dinant/SW Belgium.
6.6.40: Hs 126 shot down over Amiens on the Somme.
20.6.40: 1 KIA and 4 WIA when hit by ground fire near Lyon. This entry suggests the Staffel took part in the second phase of the campaign in France from around 6 to 23 June, driving south from the Riems area to the Swiss border.
3.8.40: Do 17P crashed - no details, Oblt. Volkel and Oblt. Schäfer both killed. It is unlikely that the Do 17P belonged to 3.(H)/14, rather it was probably being used to transport Staffel personnel.
12.9.40: Hs 126 landing accident near Malines, just north of Brussels, 40%.
1.10.40: Hs 126B crash landed at Haarend (Belg., or near Tilburg/Holland?).
17.10.40: Hs 126B crash landed at Fp. Keerbergen/c.30 km NE of Brussels, 25%.
30.10.40: Hs 126 crashed near Brussels in bad weather, 100%, 1 killed.
11.40 – 3.41: Staffel location unknown, but probably remained in the Brussels area.
24.4.41: Hs 126 B-1 damaged taxiing at Bad Vöslau/Austria, 10%.
9.5.41: Staffel member struck by a propeller at Fp. Lüben in Silesia.

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I am guessing here because my entries for the Aufklärungs- units date back 30 to 35 years ago. But I would say it's either as stated above for 3.8.40 or it's an unfortunate typo and the entry should have gone under 4.(F)/14 instead of 3.(H)/14.

L.

[Peter Cook]

Thanks Larry, does that mean that Volkel and Schäfer served with 3.(H)/14, but they were killed in a 4.(F)/14 aircraft?

[Larry deZeng]

Hello Peter -

Everything I have says both of them belonged to 3.(H).Aufkl.Gr. 14 and I have found nothing to contradict that. The British accounts of the BofB, incl. F.K. Mason, Then and Now, etc., all say it was the bogus "3.(F)/14", so the mistake began at least 52 years ago (1969) when the F.K. Mason book was published.

Assuming that the Luftwaffe 6.Abt. Verlustmeldungen d.fliegende Verbände entry for this loss would have the correct unit identification, we can only hope that Matti Salonen will see this discussion and see what he has in his data base.

L.

[Matti Salonen]

The NVM was sent by 4.(F)/14 and both Poppe and Völkel had EM issued by this unit. Schaefer had EM issued by 3.(H)/13. So, 4.(F)/14 should be correct unit.

Matti

[Peter Cook]

Thank you Matti and Larry, Brian Cull's Battle for the Channel also lists Fw Adolf Foppe as the third member of this crew, who was also killed, so I assume that it may be possible that Foppe was the pilot and was with 4.(F)/14, flying the two officers of 3.(H)/13.

[Chris Goss]

The crew was Oblt Rolf Völkel (F), Oblt Hellmuth Schaefer (B) and Fw Adolf Poppe (BF). According to Matti 2 had NVMs for 4./14 and one from 3./13 but all were with 4./14

[Peter Cook]

Thanks Chris, now resolved as far as i am concerned.

[ju55dk]

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