Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 8th October 2005, 16:23
Juha's Avatar
Juha Juha is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,354
Juha is on a distinguished road
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
during the couple last years there have been discussions on German attacks against Finnish a/c and Finnish attacks on German aircraft during 1941-44 period in http://www.network54.com/Forum/46825. Discussions are in English.

HTH
Juha
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 8th October 2005, 19:01
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 1,985
Franek Grabowski
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian
I am still experiencing some problems with my e-mail account.
Anyway, I estimate friendly fire took about 20% of combat losses, so quite a substantial problem, never properly analysed to my knowledge. Those incidents involved many famous pilots - s**t happens.
PS I see we have another subject to discuss as well!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 8th October 2005, 20:47
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,801
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Juha - I have just spent the last couple of hours perusing the net54 forum - fascinating and I have picked up some new info, Many thanks.

Franek - I too am having trouble with my e-mails - I can send but not receive! Hope to sort this out soon, so if you have e-mailed me I trust you'll understand the delay in responding. Look forward to hearing from you.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 8th October 2005, 21:39
Andy Mac's Avatar
Andy Mac Andy Mac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 139
Andy Mac
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Brian - an exciting prospect! I can think of a number of incidents well documented :

1. Dizzy Allen 66 sqn who vociforously describes being shot at by Britisk ack ack over Dover ( and later discovered he had been claimed as a kill by Werner Molders ! )

2. Brian Kingcome 92 sqn being bounced by a Spitfire which cruised past as he prepared to bail out.

3. A deliberate friendly fire incident described by Mr Kingcome in his book ' A Willingness To Die '.

4. Chuck Yeager in his P51 returning over Dover from a sweep and being shot at by British ack ack and saying to his wingman ' Goddamn it let's go down there and shoot back at those sons of b****es '. I think he did as well.

Tally Ho!
__________________
Andrew McCallum
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 8th October 2005, 22:19
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 187
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian

I trust you have Bomann's book about air warfare over Sweden during the war. Incredibly detailed covering also the "incidents" where german and allied aircraft were shot down by Swedes.
If you don't have it please let me know.

Kyrre
Harstad, Norway.
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 9th October 2005, 18:15
jhor99 jhor99 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: S.Florida
Posts: 13
jhor99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Hi guys

I have just joined your honourable guild of aviation experts. I am conducting research into friendly fire incidents for my new book. I am interested in all such incidents concerning misidentification in the air during WWII, and seek your help. My two-volume study covers all air forces, in all theatres of the war. Quite an undertaking, no doubt you will agree. My draft already contains hundreds of recorded incidents but I am sure there are more to be uncovered. Please help!
I notice that all previous comments have to do with ground fire downing friendly aircraft.
There were incidents where aircraft bombers shot diwn friendly planes. We knew that if a plane pointed his nose at you to open fire immediately,There were times when P-38s had an engine shot out, in order to join a formation of bombers the plane had to slide in and not try to go nose in.
__________________
Jules Horowitz, B17 pilot
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 9th October 2005, 22:16
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,801
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Kyrre

Do you mean Bo Widfeldt's books? If so, I have and am in touch with Bo. Thanks anyway.

Hi Jules - yes, sadly bombers did account for many friendly fire incidents - quite understandable in the circumstances. Do you have any personal recollections?

Cheers,
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10th October 2005, 00:55
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 187
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Hi Kyrre

Do you mean Bo Widfeldt's books? If so, I have and am in touch with Bo. Thanks anyway.
Doh. Minor brainfart. Yes I meant Widfeldt.

One slightly odd situ that might not be for your book but interresting nevertheless is the incident with the 11 Ju-52s that landed on Hartvikvann in Northern Norway during the invasion in 1940. Off the top of my head one got airborne while the rest remained on the ice in various states, though some quite flyable. At one point the Norwegians chased the Germans away and the planes were all of a sudden Norwegian. Apparently they started to prepare the planes for a move to Bardufoss further north.
Alas the FAA was not informed about this and the planes were strafed by Skuas. It could be that they were also attacked by Norwegian Heinkel 115's but right now I can't remember all the details.

I'm sure others has got the proper account should you be interested

Kyrre
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10th October 2005, 05:50
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 187
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Friendly fire WWII

I was reading the story about the Norwegian Airforce during the war (Luftforsvarets historie - 5 år i utlegd, by Vera Henriksen) and chanced upon a friendly fire incident.
One of the previously Norwegian Heinkel He115's (Ex. "F.56" of the Royal Norwegian Navy Air Force") ,flying with the socalled Helensburgh Group with the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment, was shot at by two Polish Spitfires near Isle of Wight some time in the spring of '42. Starboard propeller was shot to pieces and the wing started burning. But the aircraft was saved only to be destroyed later in a fueling accident.

One curiousity was the incident where previous F.64, which was a He115 captured from the Germans in 1940, was shot up by two Bf109's at its Malta mooring early 1942... (Lamb, War in a Stringbag, p213).

Kyrre
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10th October 2005, 06:03
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 187
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Friendly fire WWII

Since I'm on a roll and I'm on a nightshift here are two Norwegian pilots listed as fallen from friendly fire in the same book:
- Lt. Per Adolph Thorén, 85 Sqn, 08.10.42, Presumed shot down by British ackack at Dover
- Maj. Leif Lundsten, 331(N) Sqn, 09.06.44, Shot down by allied ack ack
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SWP Friendly Fire Franek Grabowski Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East 13 8th February 2011 09:37
Friendly fire losses Nonny Allied and Soviet Air Forces 5 23rd May 2009 18:56
Just how good was German Flak Jon Allied and Soviet Air Forces 10 1st June 2005 05:12
wierd incident involving P47 and 'friendly fire' Lagarto Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 26th March 2005 18:43
56th FG - friendly fire case on 4 May 1943 - info needed Lagarto Allied and Soviet Air Forces 28 12th March 2005 23:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net