Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28th August 2018, 18:22
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 254
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

I am trying to establish the identities of the Stuka Geschwader that took part in the 2 attacks on Portland on July 11th, 1940. The first attack, starting at approximately 07.35, is generally recorded as comprising 10 Ju87s escorted by Bf109s of JG27. The 2nd attack, starting at approximately 11.35 was made up of approximately 30 Ju87s and 30-40 Bf110s of ZG76. The makeup of the fighter escort is not disputed, the problem is with the identification of the Stuka components.

All the major sources describe 10 Stukas making the first attack, with the count presumably based on the combat reports of Blayney and Little of 609 Squadron, who gave a figure of 9 and 10 Ju87s respectively. However, as far as I can determine, only one source (Bergstrom, Battle of Britain) identifies the Stuka unit as IV/LG1.

The 2nd attack was almost certainly made by Stukas of III/StG2, with Bergstrom providing a count of 44 Ju87s. Francis Mason (Battle Over Britain) identifies two Staffeln from III/StG2, and lists one Ju87 of III/StG2 shot down at 11.30. However he also lists one Ju87 destroyed and one damaged from 11/LG1. Ramsey/Cornwell (BOB Then and Now) also identify the destroyed and damaged 11/LG1 Stukas. Andy Saunders (Stuka Attack) describes “about fifteen Ju87s”, and has a 9/StG2 Stuka shot down at 11.35. Simon Parry (Battle of Britain Archive) lists 20 Ju87s from III/STG2 and identifies a 9/StG2 Stuka that was shot down. Brian Cull (Battle for the Channel) identifies 15 Ju87s of 11/LG1 and III/StG.2, and identifies one Stuka destroyed and one damaged, with both coming from 9/LG1.

To add further confusion, Helmut Mahlke, Gruppe Kommandeur of III/StG1 describes in his Memoirs of a Stuka Pilot, page 117, how the entire Gruppe (30-40 Ju87s) took part in a shipping attack on July 11th. However, none of the major sources identify III/StG1 as a participant in any action on this date

Can anyone help to unravel which Geschwader took part in which action?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28th August 2018, 18:33
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,218
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

44 ac from I & III./StG 2 took off at 0820 hrs
42 ac from StG 1 took off 1145 hrs
18 ac from II./StG 2 took off 1200 hrs
IV./LG 1 were operating further east
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28th August 2018, 19:30
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 254
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Thanks for the information Chris, what are the sources? Also, de Zeng and Stankey's Dive bomber and Ground Attack Units has a brief description of IV/LG1 operations stating that "11 July 1940: attacked convoy and Portland Harbour". Where were the LG1 Stukas lost on this day?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29th August 2018, 11:34
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,218
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung. No mention of IV./LG 1 and other records state only one Ju 87 was lost that day on operations. BoBCA says that the Ju 87 from IV./LG 1 was lost off Dover but I can see no corresponding claim or attack
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29th August 2018, 11:42
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 5,793
Nick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

No idea if this helps but on 11 July … "A GAF aircraft 7K6CC made an SOS on 3665 kc/s at 0709 approximately 20 miles SE of Start Point."

Source: TNA HW 13/28 "GNA Vol. II, December 1940 numbered 1–20" (28.12.39 – 31.12.40)
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th September 2018, 11:10
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 254
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Thanks for the LG1 information Chris. If it is not too much trouble I wonder if you could let me know what your sources are for the Geschwader takeoff times in your first reply?

Thanks for your reply Nick, I am pretty sure that the SOS off Start Point relates to a series of actions on that day involving Coastal Command aircraft. An Anson brought down an He59, which was disabled on the sea and is presumed to have sent out an SOS. Two destroyers were sent out to recover the aircraft and crew, escorted by 236 Squadron Blenheims. Two Ju 88s appeared on the scene at different times and both were believed to have been shot down. Larry Donnelly gives a detailed account of this action in The Other Few.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4th September 2018, 13:09
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,218
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung-all times German
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4th September 2018, 21:59
Andy Mitchell's Avatar
Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Biggin Hill, UK
Posts: 782
Andy Mitchell will become famous soon enoughAndy Mitchell will become famous soon enough
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Not sure if this is any help but.....

According to the "Durch Luftangriff versenkte oder beschädigte Handelschiffe in der Zeit vom 1.7-31.7.40" Anlage 5 zum Lagebericht Nr 335.
the following claims on shipping in the vicinity of Portland were made on 11.7.40:-

I and III./St.G. 1 Handelschiff 3,000t versenkte(sunk) südostw. Portland
I and III./St.G. 2 Handelschiff 1,000t versenkte(sunk) südostw. Portland
I and III./St.G. 2 Handelschiff 2,500t beschädigt(damaged) südostw. Portland
II./St.G 2 Tanker 15,000t versenkte(sunk) südostw. Portland )against these
II./St.G 2 Transp. 10,000t versenkte(sunk) südostw. Portland)two 18 SC250 are recorded. Additionally, in the remarks column these two are marked "gesunken" (declined?)

All of the above units are marked, on the document, as operating under Luftflotte 3.

There is no mention of LG1 with shipping claims for 11.7.40 except for II./LG 1 (Luftflotte 3) with a claim for a 10,000t Tanker damaged in Falmouth Harbour (remarks indicate that the tanker was burning).

Further down the document IV.(St)/LG1 (operating under Luftflotte 2) claimed damage to shipping (including a destroyer) "südl. Dover" on 14.7.40.
On the same day (14th) V./LG 1 (operating under Luftflotte 3) claimed damage to a 3,000t ship 10 km "südüstl." Portland.
On 15.7.40 II./LG 1 (Luftflotte 3) claimed a 10,000t freighter sunk in Portland harbour for the expenditure of 4 SC 250.
__________________
Best Regards

Andy Mitchell

LuftwaffeData Wiki including the history of Aufklgr. 122

Last edited by Andy Mitchell; 4th September 2018 at 22:03. Reason: additional info added
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 6th September 2018, 13:51
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 254
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Thanks for this information Andy, very useful.

Chris, how do I get my hands on a copy of Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung? Are there similar records for Luftflotte 2?

PS, I have just ordered Knights of the Battle of Britain -- I have most of your other great books!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 6th September 2018, 14:36
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,218
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stuka Attacks on Portland, July 11, 1940

Peter
I have a full set for 1940-41 and it is available from the BA/MA at a cost but it depends what you are after as to buy for certain dates is not cost effective. PM me if you want.
Not for Luftflotte 2 I'm afraid
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battle of britain, portland, stuka

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly fire WWII Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 803 8th July 2023 15:47
Seeking ID of Stuka down at Langemarck, Belgium circa May, 1940 Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 29th September 2015 10:07
Allied attacks Trondheim 1940 John Fredrik Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 24th January 2010 21:28
Attacks On Shipping December 1940 Mark McShane Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 11 1st May 2008 22:22
Fighter pilots' guts Hawk-Eye Allied and Soviet Air Forces 44 8th April 2005 14:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net