Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 22nd September 2019, 03:39
KM1957 KM1957 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 318
KM1957 is on a distinguished road
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

I have no idea--the original poster should be the one explaining how he connects the two together.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 22nd September 2019, 11:33
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,811
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

I still follow this thread with interest.

Regarding Alex or Kent when it comes to the letters NF, I would like to point out the following
a) The identifying double letter (or letter/digit aka digit/letter) Squadron identifier was basically always painted forward of the star, not behind.
Without checking an endless number of Mustang/Thunderbolt photos I have no recollection of anything else.
What we see in the photo are two letters, NF, behind the star.

b) My belief (and I think that is what Kent also is trying to say) is that this aircraft has the full code N5-NF (assuming the photo was taken when the aircraft served with 111TRS). If I understand Kent correctly, the double letter codes he mentions are those behind the star.

c) With regard to personal codes on USAAF aircraft, they were (if I have understood things right) extremely rare, and when used it was only a high ranking officer's privilege, just like in RAF.

Over to you guys

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 22nd September 2019, 15:34
KM1957 KM1957 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 318
KM1957 is on a distinguished road
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

Every photo of 111th TRS aircraft I have seen in various books is always the two letters BEHIND the star. They did not use, for example, N5-FF; they used CA, NF, AK only as my examples show earlier, the reason for using the two letters only is unknown to me. They were not codes assigned as such to 8th and 9th Air Force squadrons which did use E2-G, QI-K or whatever. The "always in front of the bar" is also incorrect for at least one 8th Air Force group, as the 364th always put theirs behind the bar on its P-51's. So, for "Mild Max", it is coded NF, nothing else. If you have access to the old Arc-Aircam P-51B and C book, it has several shots of 111th aircraft showing full side views, each shows only a two letter combination. Kenn Rusts book on the 12th Air Force also has a couple.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 22nd September 2019, 15:43
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,811
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

Thanks You again Kent

Shows my ignorance about how some units coded their aircraft. Seems there are always exceptions to any given rule.

Very informative details, Kent, and my apologies for misunderstanding your answer. Just proves some of us needs more information than others...hrm...

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 22nd September 2019, 19:51
Hamsterman Hamsterman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
Hamsterman is on a distinguished road
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

Hi all,


My apologies for not being able to respond sooner. We were at what turned out to be an all day cross country meet yesterday thanks to the weather and we didn't get back to the house until late last night.


Thanks for all the thoughts. Kent, my comments about the 363rd book were not meant to be taken as a knock on the book which I believe to be well written and researched. I was merely responding that the 162nd, Frank Seely Jr or "his" F-6C were not mentioned in the book. I'm not as well versed in the 9th AF tac recon groups so I'm trying to piece how the 363rd and 162nd, and now the 111th, all fit together.



I originally found the photos of Bouncing Baby and Frank Seely Jr here:


https://www.armyaircorps.us/Frank_L_Seely_Jr.cfm


That page listed the plane as a P-51B Reconnaissance, which I assumed to be a F-6C, and listed Seely serving with the 162nd Tactical Reconnaissance Group. When I went searching for more information on the two, I came across this axis and allies website that featured Bouncing Baby with numerous 363rd planes.



http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.co...opic.php?13365


This had me confused because it appeared that the plane was being attributed to two different groups. As I started looking further, I found suggestions that the the 363rd and 162nd were related with the 162nd being attached to the 363rd. This is why, for lack of a better reason, that I attributed Frank Seely Jr to both the 162nd and 363rd and this is why I started looking for him and his plane in the 363rd book. Like I said, I don't completely understand how the 162nd and 363rd are related so I likely made the wrong assumptions. I believe I had it in my head that the 162nd was essentially treated as another squadron in the 363rd which is why, again, I turned to the 363rd FG book. My apologies for that.


I'm interested in learning about these tac recon groups but with all the moving around that they did, I'm having a little trouble figuring out who belonged to whom.


Thanks for your patience.


Chris
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23rd September 2019, 00:30
KM1957 KM1957 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 318
KM1957 is on a distinguished road
Re: 363rd TRG F-6C Bouncing Baby ID?

No problem on my end--the attached photos of Seely in his aircraft cleared the issue up of this ship being his. The internet is a good source for information but has to be taken with caution, such as the caption that Seely was with the 162nd Recon Group when it should have said Recon Squadron. When the 363rd was reorganized, the 380, 381 and 382 Squadrons became the 160, 161 and 162 Recon Squadrons, all still within the 363rd Group for a while. Just as a side note, S/Sgt. Charles C. Dartt and Sgt. Rudolph Klare were part of the 382nd Squadron; almost all the ground officers and enlisted men made the switch to the newly formed Recon unit, all but two pilots were re-assigned.

Kent
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net