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  #1  
Old 19th October 2005, 03:02
S Heisey S Heisey is offline
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Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Greetings to all,

My name is Scott and I am very pleased to have found this board. In the short time I have been a guest here I have learned quit a bit. I was hoping for some help in getting information on Hans Roehrig JG/53? I have cause to think he was actually shot down by ground fire in or around Palermo and not by Spitfires as he was listed as MIA/KIA without recovery?.I'd be happy to post all the possible pieces of the puzzle if interested? Also if anyone can tell me if he had a comrad or wingman that was taken as POW in mid 1943 possibly May or June most likely by the british and I suspect around Sicily or was this possibly Hienz-Karl Muller who went on extended leave around thistime and Roehrig thought he was captured, although I cannot find any evidence that he was shot down during this time.

Thank you
Sincerely
Scott
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Old 19th October 2005, 05:12
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Scott:

Have you read Jochen Prien's Volume II of his JG 53 history. It should answer many of your questions.
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  #3  
Old 19th October 2005, 07:00
S Heisey S Heisey is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Thank you John,

I'll see if I can locate a copy. Do you know if other units did cooperative missions. Like JG/77 flying a cooperative with JG/53, in particular July 13, 1943 escorting JU52's around Catania?

Thank you
Scott
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Old 19th October 2005, 14:31
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

The Namentliche Verlustmeldung for Hans Roehrig states the following: "Flugauftrag: Freie Jagd an der Ostküste Siziliens. Vorgang: Oberlt. Roehrig startete am 13.7.1943, 10,oo Uhr mit seinem Rottenflieger zur freien Jagd an der Ostküste Siziliens. In einer Höhe von 2ooo m fliegend wurden über Syracusa 6 - 8 Spitfires in 3ooo m gesichet. Oblt. R. zog den Flugzeugen entgegen und griff sie aus der tiefen Position an. Der Rottenflieger wurde von 2 Spitfires angegriffen und verlor dabei seinen Rottenführer aus den Augen. Weitere Bestellungen konnten von dem Rottenflieger nicht mehr gemacht werden."

Roehrig was flying a Bf 109 G-4, Yellow 5, W. Nr. 15063. His rank was originally typed in as Oblt. on the Namentliche Verlustmeldung. It was later crossed through and 'hptm' hand-written above it. The location of the loss is given as "im Raume Syracusa-Catania".

Hope this is of some help.


John Vasco
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Old 19th October 2005, 17:12
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Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Hi Scott,

Not sure if you are already aware of this site.

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/roehrig.html

It has a short bio and claims list for Roehrig.

Regards

Andy Fletcher
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Old 19th October 2005, 18:29
S Heisey S Heisey is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Thank you John and Andy for your input I appreciate it very much. I'll post the information I've discovered and let the better educated folks here shoot holes in it and/or perhaps confirm some of what I think is the case. Either way I'd like to know the truth as much as possible.

Thanks
Scott
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Old 21st October 2005, 08:57
S Heisey S Heisey is offline
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Question Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Hello to all,

Here's what the possible conclusions I have come up with regarding Hans Roehrig. First has anyone read the book "Doorknob52" in which the author Fredrick Arnold (formerly known as Kohn) tells the story of being shot down by a ME109 on July 11, 1943 in Sicily and was captured shortly thereafter. The pilot of this encounter visits him shortly before he is interrogated. The German pilot was concerned with a wingman he had lost a few weeks earlier. Mr. Arnold said the German pilots name was Karl Muenster and assumed he was from JG/27. I have not located any German pilot located in the area under this name...however take into account that Mr. Arnold was very young and scared and a jew in the hands of the Germans and that this pilot did not hand him his business card with the spelling of his name? Also Mr. Arnold wrote his book some forty years after the ordeal. I suspect that the name he heard or thought he heard was more likely the name of his missing wing man or comrad and perhaps phonically something close to Karl Muller? Mr. Arnold told the German pilot that he thought the downed pilot was picked up in the water by the British...so a possible POW? Now I think the pilot that shot Mr. Arnold down was possibly Hans Roehrig or Max Nairz or Schulte. But I think the pilot he was speaking to was Hans Roehrig at that time. Now Mr. Arnold escapes that same day due to the exodus from Sicily in light of the eminent Allied invasion. Cut to July 13, 1943 Roehrig is escorting JU52's in the Catania area (note: Wilhem Mestmacher of JG/77 was also listed as MIA on July 13, 1943 while escorting JU52's in Catania) Arnold and wingman come across his lone ME109 (is this unusual for a single ME109 to escort several JU52's? or did the others engage Spitfires leaving Roehrig alone?) Roehrig engages the wingman and scratch one P-38 (Franke pilot of the 71st) The ME109 pilot communicates with Arnold via radio(?) and states he's willing to surrender due to the fact he's low on fuel and cannot make it to his base? (again did he have a belly tank he had to drop due to the Spitfires leaving him vulnarable?) Arnold agrees and escorts him to Palermo where he is shot down by ground fire while on a dead stick approach to a recently captured airfield. Please realize I'm paraphrasing and the book goes into much greater detail, but the dates and locations fit. Roehrig was listed as KIA due to not returning from the mission and it was assumed he fell to Spitfires (according to one source) Now Mr. Arnold has taken flak (no pun intended) for his book and you can find both pro and con regarding his story all over the internet and I'll admit that my evidence is circumstancial but the dates areas and circumstances all fit reasonably well. Mr. Arnold became very good friends with Erich Hartmann and Hartmann tried to help him locate this pilot and again they assumed he was from JG/27, however this was before the internet and other information became avaliable. I know there are more pieces to this puzzle yet to be found . If anyone can confirm or detract from any of the above I'd appreciate it very much and I'm sure Mr. Arnold would too.

Thank You
Scott
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  #8  
Old 21st October 2005, 21:03
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

If an aircraft was shot down on approach to an airfield, there is a strong likelihood that the pilot's remains would be recovered and either buried close to his a/c or at the local cemetery. No such thing happened with Roehrig. The Nam Ver gives no further information regarding his fate, and these documents were amended/added to for decades after the events.

I get the feeling you WANT him to be shot down by ground fire in or around Palermo. You must desist from that, and keep a totally open mind. In the final analysis, apply the legal term 'He who asserts must prove' to all that you examine and it will help to keep you on the right track.
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Old 21st October 2005, 22:34
S Heisey S Heisey is offline
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Re: Greetings! I'm new to the board.

Thanks for the reply John,

Believe me I am in no way asserting anything as gospel. I'm just trying to solve the mystery as laid out in the book. Roehrig seemed the best fit to the dates and situation as described, and yes I am filling in blanks with speculation. Did they recover Roehrigs remains somewhere? All I found was he never returned from his assignment and they speculated that he was shot down by Spitfires? Could it have been Mestmacher from JG/77 sure anything is possible but given the other information he wasn't as good a fit as Roehrig. I know many many more people on this forum have a wealth of knowledge and resouces to add food for thought and I invite all opinions as thats all I have at this point too. John please if you have anything on Roerhig's demise I loved to add it in to the mix.

Thanks
Scott
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