Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > The Second World War in General

The Second World War in General Please use this forum to discuss other World War Two related subjects not covered by the main categories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th November 2017, 18:53
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
Posts: 2,067
John Beaman is an unknown quantity at this point
what a slimey person

I hope he gets the max

http://ww2awartobewon.com/wwii-news/...onal-archives/
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15th November 2017, 19:24
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 2,394
Matti Salonen is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Agreed. Such activities as Dehays' thefts will ruin our "real" researchers' opportunities to use archive services.

Matti
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15th November 2017, 20:47
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 819
edwest2 is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Theft is common in many situations, sad to say. Regarding World War II research, photographs from one book appear in another, without proper permission and attribution. While doing internet research, anonymous or not so anonymous persons, post photos and other information without permission, Some are honest mistakes, some are not. The equation is: Does the internet hurt or hinder real research? And what about the "private collections" I see mentioned in books by known authors? They do not reside in official archives. Some years ago, a person with great funds was buying up a great number of original Luftwaffe photos. He appears to have disappeared from eBay, and so far as I know, his real identity is unknown.

Respect for the dead, respect for institutions, respect for private property? In my view, the anonymous nature of the internet has helped to justify disrespect as well as theft.


Ed

Last edited by edwest2; 17th November 2017 at 00:24.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th November 2017, 15:16
kaki3152 kaki3152 is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,355
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: what a slimey person

Ed,

True, but the Internet has also brought answers to some of our questions and has helped identify photographs which would have remained unknown in Pre-Internet days.

Theft from National archives has been going on for decades. There was a famed British researcher who stole thousands of documents, his names escapes me now.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16th November 2017, 22:32
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,844
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Hi guys

I don't wish to cause a controversy, but when it comes to using photographs in my books I invariably find myself in a quandary.
I'm the first to admit that I don't fully understand copyright laws, that seem to vary from country to country, but perhaps naively I believe that photographs, particularly of a historical nature, should be available for all to see - and use. Surely no one 'owns' them apart from the individual who took the original, and presumably he/she would have wanted to share the image? Surely, the more who see the image in an appropriate setting, the greater appreciation of said image will be possible?

Shoot me down!

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th November 2017, 00:09
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 819
edwest2 is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Hi Brian,


Not here to shoot you down but copyright law is complicated and is sometimes ignored or too hard to understand. Some examples:

A) In the US, an old photo album from World War II is sold at an estate sale or ends up in an antique shop. Surely, the original owner doesn't want it, right?

B) A photo album ends up going to a university or veterans group. In the case of veterans, some may have put up photos on a site dedicated to the unit and service they belonged to, and are meant for veterans and relatives to see them like looking back into the past. They may have a statement on the site like "no photographs on this site may be reproduced" or "photographs may be reproduced by contacting us, getting written permission and following certain guidelines."

C) Some photos are passed on to a relative who, for whatever reason, decides to sell them on eBay. Say after the relative has passed on.


These are not all the possibilities.


Take the US Library of Congress:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/195_copr.html


Copyright law in Germany for photographs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photog...right_(Germany) Note: For some unknown reason, I can't link to the correct page, so click on the question near the top of the page this link goes to.


Now, this is not all-inclusive and I would contact a lawyer in any case. Some photographs may have indeed been granted copyright protection in some cases, either in writing by the original owner (even long after the war), or by assignment to a publisher who now owns the copyright, or a transfer of ownership to heirs or others.

Take the excellent publication, Luftwaffe im Focus. The owner of a photograph may give limited, one-time reproduction rights but retain ownership of the original photo in his collection.

Permission is the key, along with understanding the copyright laws of various countries.




Hope this helps,
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17th November 2017, 17:38
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,844
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Thanks, Ed

I'm even more confused now than ever!

Over the years of my publications, the vast majority of pictures I've used have come from veterans etc. On many occasions I have been sent relevant pictures by acquaintances/colleagues/even Forum members, knowing of my imminent work and need for same. I admit that sometimes I have copied from other books (hopefully with due credit) and sometimes from the Internet (and sometimes without credit, not knowing whom to acknowledge).

I trust that I am not one of those 'slimey limeys'!

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 8th December 2017, 06:05
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 41
Luftwaffle8 is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Hi guys

I don't wish to cause a controversy, but when it comes to using photographs in my books I invariably find myself in a quandary.
I'm the first to admit that I don't fully understand copyright laws, that seem to vary from country to country, but perhaps naively I believe that photographs, particularly of a historical nature, should be available for all to see - and use. Surely no one 'owns' them apart from the individual who took the original, and presumably he/she would have wanted to share the image? Surely, the more who see the image in an appropriate setting, the greater appreciation of said image will be possible?

Shoot me down!

Brian
I agree 110% with you Brian! I knew some people who would visit veterans, make copies from the vets' photo albums, then uses them in books and magazines, and claims copyright! The vets could care less.
I've posted photos given to me by veterans, and eventually, others will use the images. Do I mind? Absolutely not! As far as I am concerned, the photos belong to history. Photographs of a commercial, creative or business nature are different. But WWII photos? No.

I've found old military photos at garage sales, eBay, and collector/gun shows. I will use them. When I am contacted for permission to use, I tell them, "Go ahead and use it! It's not necessary to credit me with the photo. The photographer is unknown."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 8th December 2017, 13:57
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,844
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Luftwaffle8

Many thanks for that

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 9th December 2017, 15:40
BruceMk11 BruceMk11 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 359
BruceMk11 is on a distinguished road
Re: what a slimey person

Can't say I agree with the lack of logic in some posts in this thread.

After someone has spent time and effort chasing up wartime pics, plus their dosh, the new owner can share them (or not) and can expect to be attributed if they do.

Bruce
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re: Rekindled thread - signature book bought it in 2013, trying to find the person who bought it on eBay! Danny152 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 3rd August 2015 01:10
Lt. Hans Kaiser & Lt. Hans Kaiser-Dieckfeld same person JG 77/JG 7? Ian Jewison Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 14th April 2015 19:06
Support needed - Name: Vogel is it the same person ? KrisJG3 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 24th April 2014 01:01
First person accounts - Ploesti 1944 DavidIsby Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 2nd November 2011 11:58
Looking for UK person who is expert on Lw aircraft design and missiles who want to do TV documentary? Mikael Olrog Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 19th March 2009 22:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net