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  #1  
Old 12th August 2017, 12:13
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

Hi all

On 13/07/44,Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker claims his 16.and last "abschuss",a P-51(seems unfounded because none lost by 355 and 352°FG involved with I/JG300)...source J-Y Lorant(JG300 history,p.214)

Eberhard Kroker:J-Y Lorant
Five("Wilde sau"),two P-51,nine "viermots"

Willi Reschke:JG301/JG302 "wilde sau" (informations not always reliable)
one("wilde sau"),seven "viermots"

Total=8(Reschke)+four (Lorant)=12

And the 4 missing?

One of you knowns more?
Thanks
Michel
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Old 12th August 2017, 13:49
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

Hello Michel,

according to the Jagdfliegerverbände Teil 13/II page 65 the I./JG 300 claimed 7 B-17 and 2 P-51, but 3 B-17 and 1 P-51 were not accepted.

The claimed B-17 of the I./JG 302 was not confirmed.

The result for the Luftflotte Reich on July 13, 1944:
4 B-17 and 1 P-51 were confirmed = 5 victories.

Besides the flakbatteries claimed 6 Bombers and 2 fighters.

Regards
Leo
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Old 12th August 2017, 14:02
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

Hi Michael

Kroker never claimed a P-51 on 13th July, rather a B-17. His claims were(until 8th May 1944 with 4./JG 302, then 5./JG 300) :-

3rd January 1944 "Viermot" 0258 hrs Nr.1
21st January 1944 "Viermot" 0332 hrs Nr.2
21st January 1944 "Viermot" 2326 hrs Nr.3
24th March 1944 "Viermot" South of Berlin 2242 hrs 5000 metes Nr.4
9th April 1944 B-24 1138 hrs u/c
9th April 1944 B-24 1145 hrs u/c
11th April 1944 B-24 1119 hrs u/c
18th April 1944 B-17 1435 hrs u/c
19th April 1944 B-17 South of Munden(v.n.e-a.s.m)1034 hrs 7000 metres Nr.5
29th April 1944 B-17 Braunschweig(A.S.M) 1119 hrs 7000 metres Nr.6
8th May 1944 B-17 1012 hrs u/c
29th June 1944 P-51 South-West of Halle(N.O) 0855 hrs 6700 metres Nr.7
7th July 1944 B-17 Werdau 0955 hrs 7500 metres Nr.8
13th July 1944 B-17 West of Strassberg 1050 hrs 7000 metres Nr.9

Those for January 1944 are not on the daily mikro film sheets, as only the A.S.M have been found, however there is a mikro film covering individual pilots, but only late "K's" and early "L's" seem to have survived.

He was born on 11th September 1914. What I know about his death on 21st July 1944 is vague, only lost flying a Bf109.....hopefully somebody can enlighten us on that. Seems he was awarded the DKiG, likely after death.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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Old 12th August 2017, 14:20
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is online now
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Re: Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

1944-07-21, 3./JG 300, Bf 109 G-5, 110055, < 3, Ebersberg
Flugzeugführer Fhj-Ofw Kroker, Eberhard, +
Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %. Mit Fallschirm abgesprungen, aber der Schirm nicht geöffnet. Grab: Gemeindefriedhof Ebersberg.

Matti
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Old 12th August 2017, 15:13
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

thanks all

This confirms my first impression,the assertions of my two sources are to be taken with many reservations....at least!

They seem to mix everything up:the claims,the probable,the "may"...

About the death of Kroker
According to J-Y Lorant:I quote
"The pilots of the 359°FG saw at 10h40 a Bf.109 attacking a delayed "Liberator" who exploded in sowing 3 parachutes,the mustang catch up the Bf.109 and shot down 10 Miles to the east of the Munich aerodrome wich corresponds to Ebersberg.

He would have (would have) shot down another "Liberator"? not claimed....and for good reason!...Hmmm.Hmmm

Michel
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Old 13th August 2017, 11:21
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Fhj.Ofw Eberhard Kroker(I/JG300):16."abschuss"?

Hi Michel

I have just been working with the flugbuch of Hugo Broch, who himself claimed exactly a hundred Sowiet aircraft, but confirmed only eighty-one. Many pilots scores include unconfirmed, others(in the West) are based on a points system.
Broch's is interesting, he basically numbers those confirmed. Don't know if he later added the numbering, or knew at the time that certain planes he shot down would not be confirmed, so don't know if he ever did any paperwork.

Also he flew with Erich Rudorffer, so you would expect him to be making false claims, but actually whenever Rudorrfer is obviously flying with Broch then his claims are minimal, they are only excessive when flying with Kurt Tangermann, it's very noticeable, I therefore conclude the Broch was not corrupted by Rudorffer(possibly not even approached), and made honest claims.

I have also noted that a US "viermot" lose usually resulted in two Luftwaffe claims, also that JG 2 alone sometimes had two pilots with the same anerk number on their claims.

Am I correct in thinking also the the 300-302 units were formed with the task of dividing the "viermots" up. I would guess this led to a very high turn-over of pilots, who seemed to usually fly heavily armed aircraft i.e designed to combat bombers not fighters.

The Ritterkreuzträger Erwin Laskowski is always quoted as having about forty-five victories. He made eleven in Russia, of which ten were confirmed, then there are five "viermots" on the mikro films, which are numbered in his flugbuch, but scattered among those five are six over "heavies" he details in his flugbuch that he doesn't number, and are not found on the mikro films i.e they were not confirmed. So only fifteen victories as opposed to three times that number he is associated with. Where the forty-five number comes from I cannot say, undoubtedly is has been duplicated over decades, even "cast in stone" as thought to be correct for so long, there is nothing to suggest it came from Laskowski. Same thing for Woidich he know his total is 110, yet his abschusse list yields only eighty-two, i'm pretty sure that the 110 didn't come from his mouth!

In my opinion Kroker's total, filled with quality claims though it is, is in fact nine confirmed victories.

Thanks to everybody else for enlightening me about his death.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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