It does not add up,

[Larry]

I thought it had been on here before!

[Bertrand H]

Hi,
It is not the a/c of Orchard (Spit crashed into a hill close to Hardelot) but it is the P7697 YT-F of sgt Kay.

Bertrand

[Stig Jarlevik]

Interesting thread

Chris
If Sgt Arnett was flying P7928 when he was shot down, who went MIA with P7537?

Franks in Fighter Command losses vol 1 (1st edition from 1997) says the following three were lost one way or the other 6.5.41
P8364 (Howard) checked with Air Britain P1000-9999
P7537 (Arnett) checked with Air Britain as above
P7428 (Wilson) according to Air Britain this was lost on 31.3.41

Again checking Air Britain P7537 is listed as MIA on 6.5.41, so could Wilson have been in this aircraft?

However checking Foreman and his 1941 The turning point vol 2 (from 1994!), he lists the days losses from 74 Sq as follows
P7928 (Howard) checked with Air Britain P1000-9999
P7537 (Arnett) checked with Air Britain as above
----- (Boulding) badly damaged and crash-landed

So I certainly agree that something does not add up here, but what?

Can you Chris, or some one else, sum up the day from 74 Sq perspective?

Cheers
Stig

[markjsheppard]

Stig

That's what I have been trying to get my head around. From 74Sqn records.


6.5.41 (and the pilots listed against the airframe).

12 Spitfires escort 3 Blenheims

P7537 Flew early. Transfer flight.

P8047
P7502
P8421
P8423
P8274
P7367
P7289 Arnott (This Spitfire survived this combat and crashed in 1943).
P7316
P7428 Wilson (crash landed UK)
P8276
P8346 Howard (This Spitfire survived this combat and was lost in June 1941
with 303Sqn)
P8018

Took off 15 minutes later
P7537
P8386

The four that are not listed in the next days with 74Sqn are P7289, P7428,
P8346 and P7537

P7289 and P8346 survived and were lost later. One would have been flown by
Wilson and repaired and reissued. (Not sure if he crash landed or ditched depending on where you read!).

Therefore the two lost were P7428 and P7537

Photos of Arnott and the crashed Spitfire - looked like P7928 though the 9 was covered by the fuselage band.

Also P7428 was flown by Arnott a few times in the days before. He completed his log book post war with another serial P9188 but this was not correct either.
There is a mix up with serial numbers it seems. Three missing Spitfires from after 6th May 1941 seem to be P7289, P7428 and P7537

This is why I was interested in P7537 of 74Sqn and this photo.

regards

Mark

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Mark

Looks like the compiler of 74 Sq corrupted a lot of serials which means P7537 does not have to be correct either.

This site here states Wilson was shot down into sea and rescued
http://airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p004.html

Also who was this chap Boulding whom Foreman claims crashlanded in UK?

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

Roger Boulding who was shot down & captured a few weeks later

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Chris

My question regarding Boulding was rather badly formulated, sorry about that.
What I would like to know is did he really crashland on May 6th as Foreman claims?

If we have four losses on the 6th we also need four pilots...

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

I have at last had time to look at the 5 photos which purport to be Arnott's ac. All I can say for sure:

- Code is ZP-N
- Serial starts P7
- Last digit of serial is 8
- Ac is pretty intact-prop not bent, fuselage broken after trailing edge.
- In a field with a command post in the distance.
- Not P8199 which was in his logbook!

[AndyMa]

Has anything more come to light about P7537 please?
According to the AM78, it was allocated to AST on 19/5/41, which does not stack up with an aircraft lost in France!

[AndyMa]

I have revisited the issue of 74 Sqn's losses on 6 May 41.
There were four losses in total, three over France and one as a result of a force-landing in the UK.

The four pilots were Arnott (POW), Boulding (force-landing), Howard (killed), Wilson (rescued from the sea).
The four serials were P7428, P7537, P7928, P8364.
Other quoted serials which can be ruled out are:
P7289 (was on contractor repair at the time)
P8346 (was a 303 Sqn aircraft)
Sadly the ORB appears to be full of errors with regard to serials...

Looking at the AM78s for these four aircraft:
P7428 FBO 6.5.41, SOC 17.5.41
P7537 FBO 7.5.41 (sic), AST 19.5.41, SOC 28.5.41
P7928 FBO 6.5.41, SOC 14.5.41
P8364 FBO 6.5.41, SOC 14.5.41
The one that immediately stands out is P7537. Given that it was allocated for repair before being struck off, this must have been Boulding's aircraft.
Of the other three, two have Casualty Files associated:
P7928 Howard: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16755575
P8364 Arnott: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16755574
This would leave:
P7428 Wilson (rescued from the sea)
The one problem would seem to be the photos of Spitfire ZP-N. How do we know it was Arnott's aircraft?
Andy