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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#11
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Thanks for the comment, Laurent. It’s a convincing argument in favor of the fact that the long-nosed Fw-190 could appear in the reports before their real appearance on east front.
I continue to dig the topic and collected 1st Air Army VVS OOB on starting of the Invasion into East Prussia. Tried to put it in this thread, but probably did not pass the moderation. Obviously this information is more for the branch of the Allied and Soviet Air Forces. Do you think it makes sense to create one more topic on the East Prussian operation in that branch? Or, maybe this information is not very interesting? |
#12
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Good day, everyone!
I have coulpe of questions about docs, cause of my lack of German. In attached doc, “Eingesetze Shlachtflufzeuge 76“ means that 76 sorties were made by ground-attack planes or 76 ground-attack planes were used? I think that first suggestion is correct, but I want be sure. And second question is what stabsstaffel on Fw 190 could be meant (between III./ JG 51 and III./ JG 52). JG 52’s stakas were flying Bf 109 I believ… |
#13
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
ZhekaB -
44 Fw 190 3 Einsätze [44 Fw 190s dispatched on a total of 3 operations or missions.] Eingesetze Schlachtflugze 76 (A total of 76 ground-attack aircraft sorties were dispatched.] If I understand your question correctly, there were no Fw 190s in either JG 51 or JG 52 in October 1944. They were equipped with the Bf 109 G-6, although Geschwaderstab JG 52 also had a couple of Bf 109 G-14s. This is according to the Luftwaffe document: Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, 3.42 - 12.44. L. |
#14
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Thank you Larry, the first question is clear.
The second question was about Stabsstaffel on Fw 190 (mentioned in document) which made 24 sorties on 8 missions to cover sea district of Memel. So it is suposed that they were from JG stabstaffel? From which one it could be? I dont know any on Fw 190 in that region that period of time. Could they be from SG? Do schlachtgrupp execute cover or escort missions? |
#15
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Quote:
https://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg51.html Do not confused with Stab/JG51
__________________
Igor |
#16
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
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#17
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
So did I ))
Thank you kalender |
#18
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Updating information of German OOB on 16-27 october 1944 in East Prussian Air Battle:
Fighters: 1. Stab/JG52 (21.10. - Jurgenfelde) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14 2. I./JG52 (14.10. - Ebenrode or Lobellen?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14 3. III./JG52 (16.10. - Jurgenfelde or Trahkennen?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14 4. Stab/JG 51 (01.10.? - ?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-14 5. Stabsstafel/JG51 (01.10.? - ?) - Fw 190A-8 6. I./JG51 (01.10.? - Lobellen) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14 7. III./JG51 (01.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14 Schlachtflugzuege: 1. II./SG1 (16.10. - Gerdoen) - Fw 190F-8 2. Stab/SG4 (01.10. - Insterburg) - Fw 190F-8 3. I./SG4 (15.10.? - Insterburg) - Fw 190A/F/G 4. II./SG4 (08.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Fw 190F-8 5. III./SG4 (18.10.? - Insterburg) - Fw 190F-8 6. II./SG77 (06.10. - Gerdoen) (? two staffels?) - Fw 190F-8 7. 10.(Pz)./SG1 (08.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Ju 87D-5, Ju 87G-2 8. 10.(Pz)./SG3 (03.10.? - Huttenfelde)- Ju 87D-5, Ju 87G-2 9. Stab IV./SG9 (??.10. - Jurgenfelde) - Hs 129 B-2 10. 13./SG9 (??.10. -Jurgenfelde) - Hs 129 B-2 Recon: 1. 2./NAGr8 (?? - Bielce) - Bf 109G-8 2. 2./NAGr4 (?? - Lyck) - Bf 109G-8 3. 2./NAgr5 (?? - Lyck) - Bf 109G-8 Bombers: 1. 14.(Eis)./KG3 (Graudenz) - Ju 88C - looks like hadn't flew in October 2. 14.(Eis)./KG55 (Gutenfeld) - He 111H-16 - looks like hadn't flew in October Also there is some possibility of presence of next verbandts: 1. Stab/SG3 (possible) 2. I.,II.,III./SG3 (there is low possibility, but they moved to East Prussia in the end of October) Number of a\c during the battle is very difficult to identify, just on the beginning of the month. Last edited by ZhekaB; 28th August 2019 at 21:25. |
#19
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Happy New Year everyone,
I am going to open a post on the subject allies where I will put all the information that can be found in the Russian archives concerning air combat. I hope that the Luftwaffe specialists will find theirs there. |
#20
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Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
Hello ZhekaB,
to your post #12: with regard to ….In attached doc, "Eingesetze Shlachtflufzeuge 76"….. the question arises, what is the exact wording? "Eingesetzte Schlachtflugzeuge 76" (means 76 ground-attack aircraft were dispatched, not 76 sorties) or "Einsätze Schlachtflugzeuge 76" (means there were 76 sorties of ground-attack aircraft). Regards Leo |
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