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| Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
20th January 2007, 05:36
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Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 279 (?), 669 were credited with a combat sortie (Could someone provide a compreshensive breakdown of losses –this is what I have:
-64 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 26 B-24s) –apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –at least 9 were lost to Flak –8 lost to ??? -355 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 30 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) ? Category E Damage ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage -14 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) ? Category E Damage ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage 78 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return 28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? I quickly counted 128 Luftwaffe claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM syposium in 2002). Though I’m fairly familiar with the major air battles with bombers –Ploesti, the two Schweinfurt battles, Berlin- I haven’t heard much about this raid. Why haven’t their been any in Depth Studies on this almost unknown but remarkeable action? Can anyone elaborate on this fight? What went so wrong for the Allies at this late stage in the war? What did the Jagdwaffe do right? Thanks, Rob Romero 
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#2
20th January 2007, 09:25
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Revisions & Elaboration
A more careful count from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and some 61 or more 8th Air Force Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (better than 2 out of every 3 claims or 68.5% can apparently be verified) for what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 84 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not special consideration in assesing their claims.
84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (10 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 e. V. Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 89 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 115 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft) 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy) 7 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 6 P-38s Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-51 Actually Failed to Return -1 other pilot Claimed Unknown Type) (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighter Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47 from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3: 29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged).
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#3
20th January 2007, 10:26
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Ooops!!! More Revisions
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and 61-69 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (68.5-77.5% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 89 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims.
84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 89 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 115 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft) 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type) (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24s Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type) 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3: 29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged)
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#4
20th January 2007, 13:11
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
This is what i found:
EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO) STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 327: 679 bombers and 814 fighters are dispatched to bomb Berlin, concentrating on railway facilities; they claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft; 63 bombers and 13 fighters are lost: 1. 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA. 2. 218 B-17s are dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit the primary, 24 hit Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are lost and 161 damaged; 4 airmen are KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA. 3. 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 121 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA. Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and 234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 12 MIA. Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area.
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#5
20th January 2007, 13:37
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
According to "Making for Sweden..." by Widfeldt/Wegmann, one B-24H (41-28718, BO, MACR 4451) landed at Rinkaby in Sweden, after being attacked at 1104 hours in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. A B-17G (42-31241, Spirit of Wanett, MACR 4163) and a B-24H (41-29479, Gypsy Queen, MACR 4488 ) ended up in Denmark. Both probably hit by Flak.
Cheers Hans
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#6
20th January 2007, 18:56
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
I'm not sure I see a 51 lost in the list, that was lost at Rathenow. Capt Thomas Neal was in pursuit of 2 Fw190s diving through cloud cover. His wingman Fritts pulled up and was only 200 feet from the ground when he recovered.
Neal crashed nearby to an Fw190 which presumably was one he was chasing... Neal buried at Rathenow. I have him as "lost in aerial combat' in my own records Regards, Bill
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#7
21st January 2007, 08:34
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Revisions & Elaborations
Mission 327: Target Berlin BOMBERS 751 Assigned 679 Take Off 669 Combat Sorties 640 Bomb Targets FIGHTERS 814 Combat Sorties 1493 Total Combat Sorties 669 BOMBERS (446 B-17s & 233 B-24s) 814 FIGHTERS (117 P-38s, 463 P-47s, 234 P-51s) 1493 TOTAL (P-47s & P-51s from 8th & 9th Air Forces) 1st ? Division 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 2nd ? Division 218 B-17s to Berlin; 158 Hit Primary, 24 Hit Magdeburg, 10 Hit Brandenburg & 4 hit targets of opportunity; 3rd ? Division 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. Lost Beyond Repair Damaged 10 B-17s 150 B-17s 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers Bomber Casualties 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 1st ? Division -210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1 KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA. 2nd ? Division -218 B-17s dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit Primary, 24 hit Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are lost and 161 damaged; 4 KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA. 3rd ? Division -212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 121 damaged; 13 KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA. Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and 234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 WIA and 12 MIA. On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 327, 669 were credited with a combat sortie. 814 Fighters (Fighters or Gunners/Fighters claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft) -63 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 25 B-24s) –apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –at least 9 were lost to Flak –7 lost to ??? -432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 2 Category E Damage B-24s ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage -13 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s) -31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage 77 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return 21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example suggests -to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391 B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260 B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261 B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467 B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468 B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470 B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469 B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476 B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240 B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242 B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456 B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459 B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457 B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460 B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453 B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454 B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458 B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243 B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244 B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245 B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345 B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344 B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346 B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247 B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250 B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251 B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255 B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254 B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250 B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252 B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246 B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248 B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253 B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450 B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464 B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472 B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494 B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473 B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445 B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487 B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471 B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444 B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446 B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462 B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485 B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486 B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489 B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491 B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487 B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490 B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-24 42-64354 449 4249 B-24 41-29582 450 4614 B-24 41-29376 450 4837 B-24 41-29269 450 4855 B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493 B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940 B-24 41-29265 454 4629 B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448 B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447 B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943 B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944 B-24 41-28730 467 4942 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541 P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671 P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422 P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420 P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434 P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547 P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435 P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431 P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432 P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406 P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407 P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408 P-38 42-66985 51 4510 P-38 42-67007 51 4799 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-47 42-22687 58 5808 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments F-5 42-13124 5 On-line resource http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm
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#8
21st January 2007, 11:34
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Rob,
Great work, but your sum on claims is IMHO incorrect. It stands to reason that adding HSS claims to the total leads to instant overclaim, since no kill was claimed in the first place - Viermot was forced to leave the formation, not downed. The HSS, isn't a claim for a kill, so it should not be added to the total claims. Leaves you with 84 + 5 = 89 total victory claims
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Ruy Horta 12 O'Clock High! And now I see with eye serene The very pulse of the machine; A being breathing thoughtful breath, A traveller between life and death;
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#9
21st January 2007, 12:45
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Ruy,
When I first saw you had become involved in this discussion, you got me nervous, as I thought you were banishing me for life for excessively long posts! ;-) I think you misunderstood my intent in distinguishing and including HSS claims. A problem I am cautioning researchers to consider is that the Germans defined Victories, differently than in the West. The first (revised) Total of (88) is what we in the west would understand as Kills. However, the Luftwaffe deemed that any pilot who had the courage to knock a Viermot out of a Pulk, was worthy of being bestoyed a Luftsiege. Thus the Jagdwaffe claimed 88 ‘Kills’ but 114 ‘Victories’. Like you my point is that one should ignore HSS, in assessing the reliability of German claims. Thus when I calculated Jagdwaffe claim accuracy, I divided estimated 8th AF losses to Luftwaff Fighters (61-69) by 88 to achieve a reasonable 69.32%-78.41% Claim Veracity. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims Thanks for TOCH! Rob
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#10
21st January 2007, 23:22
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Revisions
Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin
Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets Bombers 751 679 669 618 Fighters 814 TOTAL 1493 3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division 263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin 10 B-17s are lost & 150 damaged 1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA. 1st Division (B-17) 236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Bomb Target (158 Berlin, 24 Magdeburg,10 Brandenburg, 4 Opportunity Targets) 28 B-17s are lost & 161 damaged 4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA 2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area 252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair & 121 damaged 13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA Fighter Escort 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s 3 P-38s & 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s are damaged 1 WIA & 12 MIA Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target 3rd Division (B-17) 263 228 210 –Leading Division 1st Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) B-17s 499 446 406 2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 –Trailing Division TOTAL 751 679 618 Mission 327 Casualties Bomber Casualties 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (1st Division) 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Mission 327 Losses Lost Beyond Repair Damaged 10 B-17s 150 B-17s (3rd Division) –Leading Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s (1st Division) 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s (2nd Division) –Trailing Division 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers (P-47s & P-51s -8th/9th Air Forces) Combat Sorties Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 3rd Division 10 B-17s 150 B-17s 160 B-17s 1st Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s 446 B-17s 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 349 B-17s 233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers 63 Bombers Fail to Return –Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –At least 9 Bombers were lost to Flak –7 Bombers lost to ??? 432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 2 Category E Damage (B-24s Lost BEFORE Landing) ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers 814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters 1493 Sorties 76 Lost 3 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 541 Lost /Damaged USAAF Fighters/Gunners? Combat Claims 95 Shot Down 33 Probable 48 Damaged 21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? Secondary/Diversionary Missions Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391 B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260 B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261 B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467 B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468 B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470 B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469 B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476 B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240 B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242 B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456 B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459 B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457 B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460 B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453 B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454 B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458 B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243 B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244 B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245 B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345 B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344 B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346 B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247 B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250 B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251 B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255 B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254 B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250 B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252 B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246 B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248 B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253 B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450 B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464 B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472 B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494 B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473 B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445 Shot Down by German Fighters -Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471 Shot Down by Fighter B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444 ‘Double Trouble’ -Shot Down by Fighters B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446 Shot Down by Fighters B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462 B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485 B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486 B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489 B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491 B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487 B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490 B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-24 42-64354 449 4249 B-24 41-29582 450 4614 B-24 41-29376 450 4837 B-24 41-29269 450 4855 B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493 B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940 B-24 41-29265 454 4629 B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448 B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447 B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943 B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944 B-24 41-28730 467 4942 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541 P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671 P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422 P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420 P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434 P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547 P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435 P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431 P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432 P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406 P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407 P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408 P-38 42-66985 51 4510 P-38 42-67007 51 4799 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-47 42-22687 58 5808 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments F-5 42-13124 5 THE KAMENITSA CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-100371 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters THE OFENSTEIN CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-110062 -Shot Down by German Fighters –Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ THE WYATT CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #42-7510 ‘El Lobo’ -A Straggler Shot Down by Flak and Fighters THE SHERE CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #41-28759 -Shot Down by Fighter THE BISHOP CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-110105 -Shot Down by Fighters THE ROGERS CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-100100 ‘Double Trouble’ –Shot Down by Fighters THE REED CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-7546 ‘Alfred II, -Crippled By Fighters and Abandoned over England –No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage? THE FRYMAN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #41-29427, Ready Willing and Able –Exploded before Landing due to Fighter? Damage–No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage? THE COPP CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-52642 ‘Short Round’ -Damaged by Fighters THE SLIPP CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-7495 ‘Axis Grinder’ -Damaged by Fighters THE BRUNN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #41-29448 ‘Carol Ann’ -Sligthly Damaged by Fighters THE GANN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #42-100261 ‘Sweet Chariot’ Slightly Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge –Aborted Mission THE BELL CREW, 579TH Squadron Plane #42-7472 ‘Bull Bat’ -Minor Damage THE WITTEL CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #41-29131 ‘Spirit of '46 Flying Patch’ -Slight Damage From Fighters? THE JONES CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-110097 -Damaged by Fighters THE PRELL CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #41-29433 -Undamaged THE SABOURIN CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-110028 -Undamaged? THE BRIDSON CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #852 and #42-52548 ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged? Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports –one Lib was abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)! Mission 327 and The 392nd BG (B-24) http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm
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