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  #11  
Old 13th July 2018, 20:56
uhebeisen uhebeisen is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

I totally agree with you jschreiber, there must be some information in one kind of French archives but unfortunately I am not familiar with the way the French keep track of their Air Force or Aircrafts.
I have already done a search in the Swiss Federal Archive at Berne (Bundesarchiv) but the result doesn't help much. There are about eight documents filed there all dealing with the costs of the transfer of the dead pilots.
You won't find any information in the local archives because at that time the military still was ruling even the war was over for about eight weeks or so.

@jschreiber: great that you opened that thread in the French forum. I have found that one a few days ago but I don't understand how it works and I hardly can understand what is written there. So if you can watch what's going on there that would be very kind of you.
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  #12  
Old 13th July 2018, 21:33
uhebeisen uhebeisen is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

First of all let me say thank you to all of you. I assumed that my topic had to be approved first and then I will be noticed but things are going the other way round.

I have answered a few question in the answers already. In the meantime I know a little bit more about this two losses.
The two P-39 Airacobras were of the type P39Q-21 (at least the one with SN 443914). And indeed they belong to GC II/9 Auvergne. I got a report from a Swiss historian where this SN is mentioned, it is a report issued by military command. Searching the web I found a french magazine (Aero Journal, No 39) with a description of GC II/9 Auvergne. There is even a photo with exactly that airplane [big luck].
It belongs to the 1ère Escadrille of GC II/9 and was taken around March 1945. At that time GC II/9 was stationed at La Vallon in the southern part of France not far from the Côte d'Azur
(see photo)

Regarding my model there are two questions: first the color of the spinner? Usually the P39 of GC II/9 had their spinners painted yellow but on the photo the spinner is quite dark so it might also be red.
Second, the aircraft dosen't cary a big number on the front of the fuselage as a lot of the French fighters did. Either it is a bad photo or it really has no number, at least not when the picture was taken.

Even with these two questions open it would be possible for me to build that particular aircraft as a model.

Now let's find all that information about the second P39 too.
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  #13  
Old 19th July 2018, 11:38
jschreiber jschreiber is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

Hello Ueli


Maybe a little step forward... Archive of the operational activity of the GC II/9 for that period seems to be located in the box G7956 of the French SHD (Service Historique de la Défense).



I've not found your post on the Aeroforums. Do you remember on which topic you linked it ?


For the spinners colour. I am absolutely not a specialist of markings and colours. But, by comparison with the French roundel and the yellow circle surrounding it, I will also say red or at least reddish.


Best regards / Bis bald



J Schreiber
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  #14  
Old 19th July 2018, 13:49
uhebeisen uhebeisen is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

hello Jean
sounds very interesting - would you keep that search active please.
I have now expanded my search in the Swiss Federal Archive (Bundesarchiv) and have a few more dossiers already. More will arrive in a few days because they have to scan them first. I have noticed that often the two accidents (16. July 1945, 2 Airacobras, 12. March 1947, 1 Spitfire) are linked together are at least cross-referenced.
It would be interesting to open another thread about the dangerous Rhein knee that maybe led to this crashes (but that's another story).

Today I knew both serial numbers of the P-39Q:
44-3914, which is a P-39Q-21 (4 blade propeller), pilot François de Laurens, 1ère Escadrille GC II/9
44-3044, which is a P-39Q-20 (3 blade propeller), pilot Louis François Delvolvé, ???

If someone of the French members can search and provide more information about GC II/9 Auverne that would indeed bring me further. I am also not sure where these Airacobras were based (airfield); was it still la Vallon near Isteres or would GC II/9 have moved more to the north at that time.
As you can see on the photo of my previous post the photo belongs to a collection (collection J. Mutin) maybe someone know this collection and maybe there are more photos of the 1ère Escadrille of GC II/9 Auvergne around?

And as for the Aeroforum I have done a new thread there and asked for the already archived thread to be opened or copied over again. But since the forum seems to be moderated, I haven't heard or red anything since then.

So let's go on here in 12 o'clock high for now.
cheers
Ueli
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  #15  
Old 19th July 2018, 15:01
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

Is it possible a censor has deleted the number on the forward fuselage?
The poor photo quality also makes it difficult to tell if the rudder is just a paler shade of the camo colour or another colour entirely.
Similarly for the spinner - could be yellow and I certainly wouldn't discount it, maybe red ...... but if you look at the red in the tricolour on the rudder, it's quite dark - looks darker than the spinner.
The roundel on the fuselage also looks odd - maybe not finished and that's why there's no nose number??
Good luck
Peter
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  #16  
Old 20th July 2018, 10:04
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

Thanks Ueli

Since I am mostly interested in aircraft, I was very pleased to see the second P-39Q s/n being located. Very well done!!

Cheers
Stig
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  #17  
Old 24th July 2020, 15:35
uhebeisen uhebeisen is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

wow, it is now two years since I have started this tread and this year is the 75th anniversary of this deadly afternoon.
Last year I have been busy half a year and couldn't do a lot of modelling. I just finished the decals and let them print. Things were looking much better this year. My two Airacobras are now finished. I have one photo attached.
There are more pictures on my Flickr album (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPqQwKY).
And there was also published a story about that anniversary in the Andelfinger Zeitung, a local newspaper.
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  #18  
Old 7th August 2020, 01:02
kurlannaiskos kurlannaiskos is offline
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Re: P-39Q French Airacobra crashed in Switzerland July 1945

nice job on the kits ! :thumbsup:
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